someone, anyone, is more likely to be more infectious if vaccinated than if they are not vaccinated, and less likely to be hospitalized if vaccinated than if not. I don't know the answer to that specific question even though I think the answer to the general question seems pretty clear. — Janus
Yes, I agree it certainly doesn't seem clear for people in that age group. — Janus
Do you compare me with a robber? — Prishon
So actually I want to take it. But I just say that I diont want? — Prishon
So do you not do anything the medical system has told you is a risk? Never smoke, drink, eat red meat, exercise too little, get stressed, skip the veggies, engage in sports, ski, drive, breathe city air, travel... — Isaac
ou've just got finished telling us you don't know what the experts are actually saying, nor do you know what the dissenters are actually saying. — Isaac
You said you trusted the institutions of your government. So this has nothing to do with charlatanism - you're not in a position to judge that. This has to do with choices about who to trust, that's the only thing you personally have any knowledge about. You trust the institutions of your government and what you perceive to be the consensus of scientists. Others don't. That's all you can judge on, because that's all you're qualified to know about the situation. — Isaac
As above - do you never engage in any activity the healthcare system has told you is a risk to your health? — Isaac
Placing myself at risk is one thing. Placing others at risk is another. — James Riley
Let me try again by telling you exactly what I just got done telling you: I know exactly what the experts are saying: Distance, Mask, Vax. — James Riley
You, Isaac, are not qualified to challenge Doctor Fauci on the merits of any discussion related to Covid. Likewise all the people that you listen to. — James Riley
If and when a smart person who knows as much as him denounces his recommendations, you can bet we will hear about it. — James Riley
, — Isaac
Placing — James Riley
Placing myself at risk is one thing. Placing others at risk is another.
— James Riley
Yep. Nothing whatsoever to do with the argument you were attempting though, which was that someone who took a risk to their health that they had been previously warned about by some institution should not then seek help from that institution. — Isaac
If you want to change that argument to "someone who puts other in a position some institution considers a risk, ought not seek aid from that institution if they get ill", then you'd need some new argument as to why. But let's say, for the sake of argument you have such an argument. The same would apply to fast food outlets, gun shops, tobacconists, car rental firms, ski resorts, diving schools... — Isaac
That is about as far from 'exactly' as it can get. Three words. There's been over two hundred papers on the subject in the main journals alone, and you think three words sums up 'exactly' what they're all saying? Seriously? — Isaac
The people I've quoted in this thread are all more qualified than Dr Fauci, every single one. If you disagree, pick one of my citations and point out the error. — Isaac
We have heard about it. The articles I've cited are published in peer reviewed journals, the main one being the BMJ, one of the world's leading medical journals. — Isaac
Placing — James Riley
How can you care so much about others (by getting vaccinated) while at the same time you wear a gun? — Prishon
Guns always worsen the situation, especially in the USA, where unheard teenagers make themselves heard by shooting. This disease is slowly spreading the globe. I can get protection (like the vaccine) by getting a gun too, but this only worsens the situation. Likewise you can argue that vaccinating is good for everyone but this is short-term thinking. In the long run it gives weak people, dying already of a cold. — Prishon
short — Prishon
I push quote and there shows up a random word. — Prishon
shows — Prishon
That’s where he [the son] died of COVID on August 3 – never getting the vaccine because he thought it was a government conspiracy. Now, she’s [the wife of the dead son is] pleading with the public to get the vaccine. After Stevenson’s death on August 3, one of his sons who was also choosing to not get vaccinated, finally went and got the shot. — Kaitor Kay/KFOR
the vaccine is harmless, the virus ain't — jorndoe
The father and son could have lived on to be stupid another day, but chose (the "rush" of) drowning in their own blood. (Worth it? Not according to their family.) — jorndoe
The deniers are fertile ground for the virus to "live on", spread mutate kill — jorndoe
People cannot feel safe just because they had two doses, they still need to protect themselves. — Mariângela Batista Galvão Simão, WHO assistant director general
I'm not changing any argument. — James Riley
They are utterly worthless as to be deserving of nothing but to be kicked to the street because that was their choice. So, when it turns out they were wrong, they want to come, on bended knee, to the very system they failed to trust, because they did some penny anti BS research in search of conformation bias, and then found it? Tough. — James Riley
Some people won't vax because they don't trust the gubmn't. Those same people say the vax is not FDA approved. The FDA is part of the gubmn't. So they should have the courtesy of not making that argument. — James Riley
Some people won't vax because the vax is not FDA approved. However, they go to the hospital and are treated by several different drugs that are not FDA approved. Should not the Doctors refuse giving such drugs to people who don't want them? — James Riley
Some people don't trust doctors. Yet they go to doctors when they get sick. — James Riley
The point here is this, in answer to your argument: — James Riley
Here's another distinction: Tobacco, fast food and what not, all have corporations selling their product to people who want to buy it. No one, to my knowledge, wants covid and no one is selling covid on the market. — James Riley
when society decides to assume a risk (end prohibition, for example) because people demand it, then that is a conscious decision to assume risk. Society has not decided to assume the risk of Covid. — James Riley
I already explained to that I (and most definitely you) are not capable of understanding what is in those papers or journals. But we are capable of seeing who says distance/mask/vax and who says don't. — James Riley
I have not seen you quote a single name. — James Riley
If any of those articles are saying "don't distance, don't mask and don't vax," then their respective professions are complete failures in taking down charletons like Fauci. — James Riley
Are you saying the medical profession is allowing Fauci to endanger people's health? — James Riley
Show me where the names you cite are jockying to advise government, be in Fauci's position, and he should be in the street. — James Riley
The argument you made was... — Isaac
Since you've now admitted that it being their choice is irrelevant we can assume you've relented. — Isaac
So? — Isaac
Yes. — Isaac
Sounds daft to me. — Isaac
Not sure what any of these examples have to do with me. — Isaac
What argument is that? I haven't given any argument regarding the people you mentioned above. You've given three reasons why people might not take a vaccine and then assumed that's a counter-argument to anyone not taking the vaccine. Was three your limit? Did you have trouble thinking of more? — Isaac
What the fuck has marketing got to do with reasonable risk? — Isaac
So you're saying we're morally obliged to take only the risks that have been approved by society? Harsh, but consistent at least. Bullshit though. — Isaac
Policies are something politicians decide, based on their values and objectives. — Isaac
I've given more than thirty citations in this thread alone, probably more in the other Coronavirus thread. I'd be very surprised if anyone here has cited more papers than I have on this subject. — Isaac
hat's why I asked you 'exactly' what you think Fauci is saying. — Isaac
Yes. That is the opinion of experts, including the official opinion of the World Health Organisation. — Isaac
Why would they have to be wanting Fauci's job, what's that got to do with anything? — Isaac
That's not true unfortunately. There are risks. — frank
What a ridiculous thing to say — Isaac
they chose to try and do without prophylactic medicine — Isaac
conflicts with WHO advice — Isaac
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