And also tell us exactly what those analogue computers do, and the details of their capable functions in the real world.

And analogue computers? That is just another contradictory concept which not makes sense. — Corvus

The existence of analogue computers is already established a few times in this thread! This is one more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer

The existence of analogue computers is already established a few times in this thread! This is one more:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer — Alkis Piskas

That is for ANALOG Computing (an acronym for Atari Newsletter And Lots Of Games) . :D
Atari is a company name, gone bust long time ago.

Sorry for the sarcasm. OK, analogue computers existed in history. I admit that they existed. I was totally unaware of it. I learned something about computers. Cool. But are they relevant to human brains?

Could you stop wasting everybody's time please?

That is for ANALOG Computing (an acronym for Atari Newsletter And Lots Of Games) . :D
Atari is a company name. — Corvus

Please make an effort to actually read the reference (i.e. more than its sub-reference) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_computer again. Then try not to laugh ironically, but when something is actually funny.

Here. I make it easier for you:

Analog computer
For the Atari 8-bit computer magazine, see ANALOG Computing.

An analog computer or analogue computer is a type of computer that uses the continuously variable aspects of physical phenomena such as electrical, mechanical, or hydraulic quantities to model the problem being solved. In contrast, digital computers represent varying quantities symbolically and by discrete values of both time and amplitude.

Analog computers can have a very wide range of complexity. Slide rules and nomograms are the simplest, while naval gunfire control computers and large hybrid digital/analog computers were among the most complicated. Systems for process control and protective relays used analog computation to perform control and protective functions.

Analog computers were widely used in scientific and industrial applications even after the advent of digital computers, because at the time they were typically much faster, but they started to become obsolete as early as the 1950s and 1960s, although they remained in use in some specific applications, such as aircraft flight simulators, the flight computer in aircraft, and for teaching control systems in universities. More complex applications, such as aircraft flight simulators and synthetic-aperture radar, remained the domain of analog computing (and hybrid computing) well into the 1980s, since digital computers were insufficient for the task.

All computer is digital device by my 1st order definition.
Give us your definition of what "analogue" and "computer" is. — Corvus

Analogue: There is a real physical process in the physical world. There is an analogue pricess to that. Say the motion of the planets and an electric process making the same oscillatory motion. Then that electric current is an analogue process and can be used to model the planetary system. No computation by a program on data is involved.

Could you stop wasting everybody's time please? — Daemon

If you can't stand dialectics, then why are you here?

Thanks for your explanations. Excellent.

Could you stop wasting everybody's time please? — Daemon

I agree. Please do.

There isn't any doubt about the existence of analogue computers, just try to read and understand what people are saying to you.

Thanks for your explanations. Excellent. — Corvus

Your welcome. I didnt see yet the comment before mine. Excellent indeed!

There isn't any doubt about the existence of analogue computers, just try to read and understand what people are saying to you. — Daemon

I questioned until it was clear. I am still in denial of those old machines as computers, but did admit that someone went and wrote them into wiki.
BTW, Your attitude is not philosophical, actually despicable. You don't allow people doubt and question on things which are murky in origin.

"An analog computer or analogue computer is a type of computer that uses the continuously variable aspects of physical phenomena such as electrical, mechanical, or hydraulic quantities to model the problem being solved."

There's something missing from this definition, something that is crucial to the question whether the brain works like an analogue computer. What's missing is the fact that we use the computer to model the problem being solved. The computer doesn't use the physical phenomena, we do.

A slide rule is a mechanical analogue computer. Mathematical calculations are performed by aligning a mark on a sliding central strip with a mark on one of two outer fixed strips, and then observing the relative positions of other marks on the strips.

The computer's output has to be interpreted by an outside observer. It's the same with any computer, analogue or digital. It isn't the same with the brain/mind. Your brain is producing your present conscious experiences regardless of how an outside observer might interpret what is happening.

Therefore the brain/mind does not work in the same way as a computer. QED

I can undersand the confusion. An analog(ue?) computer doesnt actually compute.

An analog(ue?) computer doesnt actually compute. — Prishon

Great point, mate. :up:

:smile: I could have been born in Curiocity myself!

For a decent definition of computer in modern times, computers must be able to store, search, compute, and recover data for its minimum functions. With analogue structure of the device, they cannot perform these functions in any practical ways.

Does a digital computer actually compute? Try reading the brief argument I've posted twice now. It answers your original question.

The brain though has no explicit storage of information. There are strengths between neurons governing the flow of electricity. When I think of a ball a similar structure rolls around in my brain.

I could have been born in Curiocity myself! — Prishon

Thank you for being a patient and respectable dialectic interlocutor Prishon in this thread. From the dialectic process I have learnt something new today. It was cool. Never a waste of time. I salute ~

Does a digital computer actually compute — Daemon

I a digital computer there is a program (fixed 1s and 0s) let loose on information (flowing 1s and 0s). The programs pulls through the 1s and 0s. By means of a voltage source. Thats computation. In the brain this doesnt happen. Neither in an analogue proces involved in modeling other processes.

Thank you for being a patient and respectable dialectic interlocutor Prishon in this thread. From the dialectic process I have learnt something new today. It was cool. Never a waste of time. I salute ~ — Corvus

Hope to see you again! :smile:

There are no 1s and 0s in a PC. There are voltages, or "pits and lands" on an optical disc, and we interpret these as representing 1s and 0s.

There are no 1s and 0s in a PC. There are voltages, or "pits and lands" on an optical disc, and we interpret these as representing 1s and — Daemon

The difference netween the potentials is though that the soike in a neuron is not pulled through by a oot. difference between the two ends of a neuron. Between the body and the axon, that is.

Look, you've just told us that computation is 0's and 1's, the program pulls through the 0's and 1's, whatever that means.

Then I've pointed out to you that there are no 0's and 1's. You need to address that.

Stop wasting our time.

All computer is digital device by my 1st order definition. — Corvus

Well that rules out analog computers (as well as quantum computers), but it doesn't sound like it's talking the same language as people who use terms like "analog computers" (including you) and "quantum computers".

Give us your definition of what "analogue" and "computer" is. — Corvus

It's given in the links already provided to you. Here's a definition for "computer":

A computer is a machine that can be programmed to carry out sequences of arithmetic or logical operations automatically. — Wikipedia, Computers

Here's a definition for "analog computer":

An analog computer or analogue computer is a type of computer that uses the continuously variable aspects of physical phenomena such as electrical, mechanical, or hydraulic quantities to model the problem being solved. — Wikipedia, Analog computer

...and as for the standalone definition of analog, it's a red herring. Analog computer is a compound term with meaning and referents. The usage of the compound term establishes the meaning of it.

For a decent definition of computer in modern times, computers must be able to store, search, compute, and recover data for its minimum functions. — Corvus

You've got this entire exercise backwards. Terms get their meaning from established usage. Per the established usage, the TR-10 is referred to as an analog computer, not a meter, and not a vintage recording machine. The quality of your definition comes from its ability to describe the established usage... so it's kind of futile for you to argue that because you define "analog computer" as a square circle, the TR-10 is not one. The absolute best you could do with this argument is to argue that an analog computer doesn't match your definition of a computer, which is uninteresting.

Per linguistic standards, insofar as your definition does not fit the established usage, its your definition that's wrong. And by wrong, what I specifically mean is that it fails to describe the established usage of the term. It's fine to have local, arbitrary definitions, but if that's what you mean when you say this:

I am not sure if analogue computer has ever existed. Every computer ever existed in history is all digital from my knowledge.
Can you list some examples of analogue computers? — Corvus

...then all you're saying is you have not seen a square circle. So what?

The absolute best you could do with this argument is to argue that an analog computer doesn't match your definition of a computer, which is uninteresting.

Per linguistic standards, insofar as your definition does not fit the established usage, its your definition that's wrong. — InPitzotl

Normally I go with the dictionary definitions on most concepts, but wiki? I don't trust wiki sorry.
And in my profession, I have dealt with myriads of analogue devices, so I know exactly what they do, and are for. In real life and the world, they cannot be classed as computers.

For computers, they must be able to store, retrieve, compute and search for data, and process them into useful and organised form of information. Analogue devices cannot do that from the limitation of their structure. OK, if you are desperate, you can call an ancient abacus a computer.

But due to the misuse and widening of the concepts, you will find that the confusions will never go away in the discussions and even in real life. I try to narrow the concepts whenever possible.

Stop wasting our time. — Daemon

I asked the question! I cant help it that you dont understand my vision on the brain. Man! @Corvus was right! What an attitude. When you dont understand you say to stop waisting your time. Now what do I mean by pulling trough bits? Aint that clear?

Im tending to think there is only one reasonable person here... And its not me...

Normally I go with the dictionary definitions on most concepts, but wiki? I don't trust wiki sorry. — Corvus

I judge wikipedia's definition the same way I judge yours. Wikipedia's definition is good by this criteria. Yours is wanting.

And in my profession, I have dealt with myriads of analogue devices — Corvus

Everyone deals with myriads of analog devices. I interact with SSD's all of the time in my profession. This has nothing to do with your definition.

For computers, they must be able to store, retrieve, compute and search for data, and process them into useful and organised form of information. — Corvus

Then (a) what would you call a TR-10? (b) Given everyone else calls the TR-10 an analog computer, why should I care what you call a TR-10?

OK, if you are desperate, you can call an ancient abacus a computer. — Corvus

Second time... the TR-10 was commercially sold as an analog computer. That goes in the established usage bucket, not the desperate relabeling bucket.

But due to the misuse and widening of the concepts, you will find that the confusions will never go away in the discussions and even in real life. — Corvus

What confusions? The biggest confusion here is your weird claim that to your knowledge there has never been an analog computer, followed by denying that what everyone else calls an analog computer is an analog computer. If that's the confusion you're talking about, I have another idea of how to resolve it.

At the end of the day, there is the TR-10. We call things like the TR-10 analog computers. There's nothing here to be confused about, and outside this brief lesson on linguistics, there's not really anything interesting here.