When anything becomes to be worshipped, just ignore the worship and the worshippers. What you are describing is when it has become an ideology, a pseudo religious mantra. Then it's just basically a religious sermon, a declaration of faith, what these people preach. Hardly worth listening, because these people aren't open to discussion or any new ideas.My problem is with free market fantasies, and the very idea that markets are something to be worshipped. They should be one small part of a society, and nothing more.
Markets are elevated to the point of holiness by a merchant mentality, where everything is about transactions, monetary value, and profits. I think we can aspire to more than that. — Xtrix
When anything becomes to be worshipped, just ignore the worship and the worshippers. — ssu
Hardly worth listening, because these people aren't open to discussion or any new ideas. — ssu
Have you actually noticed that the most vociferous defense of the free market is given as a response to defend basically either a monopoly or a tight oligopoly situation? — ssu
Comes to mind what an economic historian who had written the history of British Petroleum (BP) remarked: when BP is doing good and the UK government thinks about taking more profits or doing something other with the company, the company reminds of it being an independent corporation. When BP is in a tight spot, let's say a possible take over bid is looming, the company reminds the government who how strategically important it is to the UK and it's government. — ssu
One should remember that a lot of this public discourse is what in the old days is called propaganda. Or jargon, lithurgy. Intended for some target audience for some reason.I'd love to, if not for the fact that they run the world -- and that's not an exaggeration. This dogma (really more akin to a religion) is espoused by corporate and political leaders to this day. The dogma says that markets know best, that they should not be interfered with by the pesky state, that anything negative in history can be reduced to state interference, and so on. It's all very self-serving, especially when a "market" has been very good to you. — Xtrix
What we have suffered under since the 70s is free market fundamentalism. Ideas like the "efficient market hypothesis," and things to that effect. All of it has lead to exactly the facts we see around us: huge income inequality, stagnant real wages, loss of unions, more precarious work, gib economies, corporate consolidation, stock buybacks, shadow banking, government bailouts, etc.
When Norway, lead typically by social democrats and having a huge wealth from oil revenues, doesn't spend as much money as the US does in health care per capita, you know there is a problem. And everybody else spends less than the US and Norway.A Bernie Sanders style social democracy would solve a lot of this and is way better than the neoliberal bullshit we’re dealing with now, but is it sustainable? F*ck no if you ask me (and I’m sure you probably know why) but is revolution going to happen any time soon? Also no. I’m interested in hearing some more pragmatic solutions and your thoughts on this. — Albero
Like democracy, it relies on the assumption we are flawed. Democracy limits harm through inefficiency and the free market functions on people serving their own interest above others. The free market doesn't describe a value for society; I think that's where things take a turn. It is a system of exchange that relies on humans to be selfish when they want something. It's organic and works with the least proud aspects of human nature. Central planning isn't a thing; too many people doing too many things. Trying to organize a forest.The real question is: What's so great about "markets" to being with? — Xtrix
And I think this is happening here too now ...when people speak publicly, on the record. Have them speak privately and you can see they usually are totally aware of the problems and call them by their actual name. — ssu
A Bernie Sanders style social democracy would solve a lot of this and is way better than the neoliberal bullshit we’re dealing with now, but is it sustainable? F*ck no if you ask me (and I’m sure you probably know why) — Albero
I’m interested in hearing some more pragmatic solutions and your thoughts on this. You might disagree and I hate to say it, but I think voting in FDR style democrats is merely a compromise the capitalist class is more than hap[py] to welcome for a few decades before chipping away it again — Albero
t is a system of exchange that relies on humans to be selfish when they want something. — Cheshire
I think that the large majority of Americans fundamentally agree with each other that something is wrong. — Xtrix
You can see that obviously there is this sense of things not being right. There is this underlying anger in the country that can sometime erupt. The question is how it is vented out and by whom. Trump was basically this middle finger from part of the voters. Obama was someone that other people pinned their hopes. I remember when my friend had visited the US just when Obama was first elected, there was a lot of hopeful thinking. Yet unfortunately, this isn't something that just a President can change.The anger is not articulated well, but it's right under the surface because they live it every day. They sense something is wrong with this world and would like to see it changed. It's not envy, it's not entitlement. It's a sense of fairness in a world where the rules aren't at all fair. But who or what is to blame? — Xtrix
I remember when my friend had visited the US just when Obama was first elected, there was a lot of hopeful thinking. Yet unfortunately, this isn't something that just a President can change. — ssu
Ummm.. should we call this representative democracy and forming new political parties?I keep coming back again and again to a simple goal: organization. Getting involved, on the local level, with anyone willing to listen and join in, or joining in with something already happening -- and there are some things happening here and there. But not particularly well, and not particularly prevalent or effective. Still, it's worth trying. — Xtrix
You quoted me out of context; ignoring the sentence directly following this one spoke to your entire complaint above. Do you have anything honest to say?I more pro-social, healthier view of human beings should be assumed before we decide how to organize a society, its government and its economy. — Xtrix
The family is more communist than capitalist in its internal relations; from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs. — unenlightened
the market is a way of dealing with folk one does not care about. — unenlightened
ignoring the sentence directly following this one spoke to your entire complaint above. — Cheshire
Redacted....Don't want to be quoted, don't post. Save your stupidity for elsewhere. — Xtrix
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