From what I hear, that is also true for getting it, only the antibodies go away sooner than that. No, I don't have a cite. — James Riley
I know a guy who was infected and never got long term antibodies, just the short term ones (we're all enrolled in antibody research). — frank
The lack of a chorus of statistically trained analyst covering the anti-vaxx position — Cheshire
The lack of a chorus of statistically trained analyst covering the anti-vaxx position — Cheshire
Do you need me to provide all of my 30 something citations again? Do you think enough time has gone by now that you can safely pretend I haven't fully cited every claim I've made with several experts in the field? And you accuse me of arguing tactically... — Isaac
It is a rock and a hard place, but I know to which side I am leaning. — Tzeentch
It wouldn't be an effective illusion if they were all fake. To cite things that aren't intended to support antivaxx messages; and suggest otherwise with undue emphasis does create an illusion. So, yes it is, even in this case; you wouldn't need to fabricate anything.It's not an 'illusion' if they're all real is it. Are you claiming I've fabricated them? — Isaac
It'll give immunity to almost anyone, but some people already have some immunity, others can acquire immunity using their own antibodies without suffering too much harm. Others will not get sufficient immunity, the vaccine is not 100% effective. — Isaac
This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. — https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
the question that seems to arise if the findings of this study are accurate is as to whether a vaccinated individual who suffers a breakthrough infection and survives would acquire natural immunity just as an unvaccinated infected individual would. Because if the answer were 'yes' to that question then there would be no downside to being vaccinated — Janus
The risks are minimal though it seems, unless you are privy to some evidence which has escaped my attention. — Janus
For adults, the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination are enormous, while for children, they are relatively minor. Rare side effects from adult COVID-19 vaccination are unlikely to lead to future vaccine hesitancy whose public health impact could be comparable to the benefits of the adult COVID-19 vaccination program itself. But accelerated mass child vaccination under EUA — perhaps even spurred by school mandates and “vaccine passports” — presents a different balance of risks and benefits. Rare adverse events really could prove to be the most durable public health legacy of an EUA for child COVID-19 vaccines.
Given uncertainty over risks I cannot foresee for now that there will be a recommendation for general vaccinations" in children, he said, adding that while the vaccine was shown to be effective, "practically nothing" was yet known over any long-term adverse effects in adolescents. — interview with paediatrics professor Ruediger von Kries, a member of Germany's advisory vaccine committee
With kids, they’re not going to stop transmission, they won’t stop escape variants, nothing is. It is about the risk to the child themselves. — Paediatric critical care consultant Dr Ruchi Sinha speaking to the UK APPG on Coronavirus
It is appalling that they are making massive profits out of this emergency. "Oh, but what about the shareholders" I hear them braying. Well, fuck the shareholders! — Janus
WHO’s director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, called global vaccine inequity “grotesque,” a recipe for seeding viral variants capable of escaping vaccines, and a “moral outrage.” — https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2027
This moral scandal, enabled by corporate and political permission of mass death, is tantamount to a crime against humanity. Yet we too are complicit by our silence. Why are workers and shareholders at vaccine companies not speaking out? Where are the academics clamouring to make the “fruits of the scientific enterprise” available to all? Where are the lawyers demanding global justice and corporate accountability? Which leaders of rich nations are pressuring vaccine companies to make their people safe by making the world safe? Where is the grassroots mobilisation of scientists and health workers to fight for fair access to vaccines?
I don't understand how half the country fights tooth and nail against socialized medicine since recent memory, but when the vaccine is produced by the same system it's untrusted? Where are all the free market capitalist insisting it must be the best vaccine because it's made for profit? The conservative right is doing a handstand on this issue.It is appalling that they are making massive profits out of this emergency. "Oh, but what about the shareholders" I hear them braying. Well, fuck the shareholders! — Janus
Isaac; do you think that your view is the consensus amongst epidemiologists? — Banno
I have not been following this discussion closely, but I gather you have qualms about vaccination. Perhaps the question is, which of those qualms do you think would have some general acceptance amongst those in the field?Do you need me to provide all of my 30 something citations again? — Isaac
But not in the case of this pandemic. Nobody gets excused, everyone is put into the same category.Whereas there isn't a rational reason to not get vaccinated (except in those with health conditions that make vaccinations dangerous), and so can't be excused. — Michael
What jurisdictions? Nursing homes and hospitals?In jurisdictions where covid passports are mandatory for many activities, the matter of whether it is moral or immoral to refuse to get covid vaccinated has been rendered moot anyway, and made into a matter of practical convenience. — baker
I'm seeing some accusations of hypocrisy (double standards) here, while at the same time committing a two-wrongs-make-a-right fallacy. :meh: — jorndoe
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