I am truly astonished with Narcissus. He definitionally lived a selfish life, concerned with his own reflection, and was not burdened with any ill fatum or competitions of the highest regard. Unlike Troy's Hector, he did not have to defend a city from Achilles' rage.

Yet, here we are so many years latter, reminiscing, about his purposeless life.

Isn't this absurd or is there some meaning to his life that I haven't yet understood?

So, what was so special about Narcissus? — Shawn

The story is interesting because it can be read in other ways than a cautionary tale against excessive self involvement. Is the anger of Achilles only about his decisions or do they reveal something else?

The story is interesting because it can be read in other ways than a cautionary tale against excessive self involvement. — Valentinus

What other ways can it be read in?

Is the anger of Achilles only about his decisions or do they reveal something else? — Valentinus

Perhaps, like most tragic figures of ancient Greece, he knew his fate, and saw it all coming to realize with the war with Troy, the death of his beloved, and the clash with Hector.

Priam strikes me as one of the most beautiful people of ancient Troy, and I still think about his dialogue with Achilles after Hector's death.

What other ways can it be read in? — Shawn

The reflection is not oneself. The resemblance is an odd accident. A glimpse of a passerby that is wrongly understood as oneself. The fascination is with another.

The reflection is not oneself. The resemblance is an odd accident. A glimpse of a passerby that is wrongly understood as oneself. The fascination is with another. — Valentinus

Yet, Narcissus took it as a reflection of himself. He was concerned with nothing more than his beauty.

The tale is simple and short. There seems to be no moral of the story other than the purposeless vanity in a reflection upon a still pond. It was a simple and easy life, as I would argue.

I am not sure you are being completely genuine in your responses. You asked me to explain how I understood the texts as well I could. I did that, as well as I could.

But now you want to describe those efforts as one argument against another. It would be simpler if you said what you thought was the case.

It would be simpler if you said what you thought was the case. — Valentinus

I believe, as simply as I can, Narcissus lived an unremarkable life in ancient times, fell in love with himself, and by psychologists got called a narcissist (the causality is clear), and this we remember him to this day?

This all strikes me as strange, or telling of our times. What do you think about all this, as stated, or am I missing something here?

The only person comparable who enjoyed such a life, would be, to myself, Nero(?)

Add in Phthonus (Envy) and Nemesis (Revenge) to the pool party. Sounds like a recipe for humanity.

If I can't be of value by measure of what the group values, in endless hierarchical ascension of competitive vanity, then I shall revel in the shallowness of self-love, as the remaining outlet of pleasure.

Alone in my mansion, bereft of others, I'll look into my exaggerated portrait and declare: "I'm too sexy for my shirt."

Add in Phthonus (Envy) and Nemesis (Revenge) to the pool party. Sounds like a recipe for humanity. — Nils Loc

No judgement; but, narcissism seems like a common feature of humanity as we see it these days. (Not entirely sure about this.) What do you think?

Proceeding from this, what's so special about thinking of one's self as 'special'?

Proceeding from this, what's so special about thinking of one's self as 'special'? — Shawn

A morale helper, a support cushion, a superhero mask, a dream to keep oneself alive? Imagine the terror of the opposite: the self as a useless, ugly and bad powerless piece of shit. The way mythology/ideology helps to guide and sustain us in a sad, absurd, chaotic world. I don't know.

If you're gonna run the gauntlet (run in the rat race) you need a bit of a psychological bump (placebo) or a powerful anesthetic.

If you're gonna run the gauntlet (run in the rat race) you need a bit of a psychological bump (placebo) or a powerful anesthetic. — Nils Loc

Nah, Narcissus was self-sufficient. He entertained himself in a reflection, felt happy with what he was doing, and deep down inside, while sitting there looking at himself... felt happy inside.

So, is this why we recollect about him to this day?

A morale helper, a support cushion, a superhero mask, a dream to keep oneself alive? Imagine the terror of the opposite: the self as a useless, ugly and bad powerless piece of shit. The way mythology/ideology helps to guide and sustain us in a sad, absurd, chaotic world. I don't know. — Nils Loc

It seems that I don't know either.

Nah, Narcissus was self-sufficient. He entertained himself in a reflection, felt happy with what he was doing, and deep down inside, while sitting there looking at himself... felt happy inside. — Shawn

It's a myth. You can just as well retell it how ever you'd like, like you just did.

How do you interpret it, then?

Narcissus was self-sufficient. He entertained himself in a reflection, felt happy with what he was doing, and deep down inside, while sitting there looking at himself... felt happy inside. — Shawn

That is an interesting interpretation of the story. An alternative version would spell a story of insecurity.

There is noting to secure my vision of myself but the stories I write about it. This figure in the mirror is proof of that because one cannot own the instruments that make that possible.

What about celebs and influencers who keep posting selfies of themselves in the social media? Could they draw any lessons from the story?

So, the story of Narcissus is a bit larger than this dope looking into a stream and falling in love with his reflection. The story of Narcissus is by the Roman, Ovid, in his epic The Metamorphosis. It's a pretty good story. Narcissus's is just one of several characters and plot lines.

There are two characters: Echo and Narcissus. Echo has been punished for some offense by being reduced to repeating the last few words she hears -- an echo. Echo's situation has been used as a medical term, too -- echolalia, where autistic children repeat whatever they hear. Some adults have this problem too -- Trump says something, and Republican dip shits keep repeating it.

Narcissus was out hunting with the boys. He apparently wasn't paying attention, or they deliberately slipped away. Meanwhile, Echo sees Narcissus and is stricken with love (or lust, or both) and wants to call out to him -- but she can't. Remember the curse on her? Fairly quickly it happens that Echo is able to come out of the bushes, and approach Narcissus. He's not pleased or interested. He's so uninterested that he tells her he hopes to die before he allows her to enjoy his (manly delicious) body.

Despite the harshness of his rejection, Echo's love for Narcissus only grows. What a nuisance! When Narcissus died, wasting away before his own reflection, consumed by a love that could not be, Echo mourned over his body. When Narcissus, looking one last time into the pool uttered, "Oh marvellous boy, I loved you in vain, farewell", Echo too chorused, "Farewell."
Eventually, Echo, too, began to waste away. Her beauty faded, her skin shrivelled, and her bones turned to stone. Today, all that remains of Echo is the sound of her voice.

So... what is it with Narcissus?

Maybe he is some sort of homosexual? [The sort of egalitarian relationships between men and women that are more common in the modern west were absent in Rome and Greece. To a large extent, "men composed society". The Greeks and Romans had attitudes toward sexuality that were somewhat different than ours.] A guy falling in love with the image of a male, his own or somebody else, seems kind of 'gay' to me. He's not at all aroused by the presumably beautiful Echo -- another gay feature. Gay guys usually are not excited by women. A lot of gay men tend to be attracted to men who generally look like themselves. People tend to eventually look like their dogs, too, but that's a different process.

Gay or straight, Narcissus is a sick boy. A sexual deviation that some young men (men in particular) experience is the self-involvement of excessive solitary masturbation. They apparently have a lot more than the average amount of tension to resolve--sexual or academic or something else. The main feature of narcissism is very excessive self-involvement, to the point of isolation. Perhaps it's a defense mechanism (escape from reality). Narcissists are not usually what one would call realistic about their own importance. (For many famous narcissistic people, realism would be the kiss of death). Donald Trump, again. He would likely find an objective appraisal of his talents and accomplishments devastating.

There are gay narcissists, though most of the raging narcissists I have observed have (presumably) been heterosexual.

An alternative version would spell a story of insecurity. — Valentinus

Narcissus was insecure?

This research seems to support what you are saying:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210325150223.htm

I believe that this is a much more complex phenomenon than what can be stated on a forum. You might like the link above.

I believe that Narcissus wasn't necessarily insecure. I mean, who isn't insecure nowadays? My understanding is that Narcissus was simply expressing self-love to a greater extent than route aggrandizement or excessive self-esteem. What do you think?

That was a nice read. It strikes me as odd that psychologists would designate the etymology of narcissism to Narcissus.

What do you think?

I believe that Narcissus wasn't necessarily insecure. I mean, who isn't insecure nowadays? My understanding is that Narcissus was simply expressing self-love to a greater extent than route aggrandizement or excessive self-esteem. What do you think? — Shawn

Well, apparently, there are different versions of the story so it's hard to tell how we are to read it.

You could perhaps say that he was in a way selfish or even self-obsessed. But if others fell in love with him I don't see how this was his fault. I think it would be silly to expect someone to love people back just because they fall in love with him. It would be like a kind of blackmail. And what if more than one person falls in love with you?

In any case, if narcissism involves "grandiosity" and "excessive need for attention and admiration", then I don't see how this applies to Narcissus who seems to have been interested only in his own attention for himself and did not demand anything else. I think the "excessive need for attention and admiration" is easier to attribute to those who fell in love with him. So, it's all a bit of a puzzle to be honest ....

Narcissus?

Gay or straight, Narcissus is a sick boy. A sexual deviation that some young men (men in particular) experience is the self-involvement of excessive solitary masturbation. They apparently have a lot more than the average amount of tension to resolve--sexual or academic or something else. The main feature of narcissism is very excessive self-involvement, to the point of isolation. — Bitter Crank

Bah! Nothing wrong with masturbating for eternity alone. The only tension resolved is the kind caused by a ceaseless and irritating horniness.

:eyes:

Oh, it might not be odd. Professionally educated people, like Freud and his fellow researchers in the late 19th century, had a lot more familiarity with classical literature than we usually do. That they might tag a pattern with a classical character who exhibited some of the pattern's features would not be surprising. So, Oedipus, for example. Or guys with a Napoleon Complex (short ambitious).

I wasn't myself granted such irresistible beauty that people were swooning at my feet. I'd find it tedious, pretty quickly.

But Narcissus was sooo beautiful, people could not resist him--even if he'd just as soon they go bother somebody else. Maybe such people are born for real who are irresistibly beautiful and who do not need the help of agents and PR to attract admirers. I think these characters are more fictional vehicles than real.

Hmmm. I've never thought of masturbation as a problem. The situation I was thinking of was a Roman Catholic college counselor who was concerned that some students were jacking off 6 or 7 times a day. How did he know that? That's only once every 2 or 3 hours. That leaves plenty of time between each round to read, take notes, go to class, sleep, eat, say a Hail Mary or two, and so on. Do Roman Catholics think that lost sperm is as bad as abortion? Maybe that was the problem.

Maybe such people are born for real who are irresistibly beautiful and who do not need the help of agents and PR to attract admirers. I think these characters are more fictional vehicles than real. — Bitter Crank

Exactly. Besides, attraction isn't just about beauty. And, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Moreover, I think Ancient Greeks were prone to exaggeration and drama. After all, they invented theater.

So, I'm beginning to think that it could be just a Greek myth .... :smile:

Narcissus is the archetype of the addict.
Echo of the unthinking enthusiast for whatever propaganda, religious, commercial or political, happens to be the loudest.

So, what was so special about Narcissus? — Shawn

The historical reception of the literary character. There must be something appealing about Narcissus that catches people's attention. Which, of course, says a lot about the people.

Narcissus is the archetype of the addict. — unenlightened

He strikes me as the person of other people's envy, and the envied person.

He strikes me as the person of other people's envy, and the envied person. — baker

The utter irrelevance of other people, envious or pitying is the essence of Narcissus. Self -concern and self-love, writ large, would be envied by those with equal self-concern, but without self-love. Self-harmers, anorexics, for examples - another form of addiction.

Self -concern and self-love, writ large, would be envied by those with equal self-concern, but without self-love. — unenlightened

Is this a feature of Narcissus? That he possessed self-love? Does it translate to a positive of narcissism, rather than a negative?