To be here or not to be here, honest question.

Jem

So I found you guys.

And I'd like to stay and read and learn and discuss and develop and I probably said and too many times for most of you already?

I read a good few threads before deciding to make an account. I came to the conclusion I have nothing to add except a burning desire to do better, to be better, to create better and to try to question and understand the world around me more. All these feelings I have to assume you have felt, or why els would you be here?

So far I think it popped up three times... that all discussion must be to an educated standard, that members must be able to use correct grammar and provide proof that they are well educated in their writing and understanding.

So I had to join just to ask..... should I be here?

I am by no means as well educated as other members, I cannot quote the way you can, spell as well as you or use grammar the way you lot can. (Apparently there would be more sympathy towards me should english be my second language.... but no such luck. Guess I'm just what you'd call a dumbass).

But..... and I do feel it is a big but, should lack of proper English mean I am not welcome on this page?

Are we not all connected? Do my opinions not matter as much? Do I not have the right, same as you, to look at the world and question it? Is that not what philosophy is? The coming together of people to talk and learn?

I can understand you wanting to keep the tone of discussion to a higher standard but I can't understand that as "philosophers" you would so quickly encourage those who didn't make it threw the educational system to not take an active part in discussions.

Are we not supposed to learn from each other?

Granted you might be thinking I've alot more to learn from you than you of me but I can't help but feel that you instantly shoot down a large amount of people who, regardless to grammar are looking for people to talk to and learn from... are you "better educated" lot not who we should be seeking to learn from?

I don't get it.

I came here to read discussions (usually to self conscious to post places.... due to the whole come access as a simpleton because I can't spell) and instantly felt unable to contribute. Is that really the vibe you want to give off?

I know I asked a fair few questions along the way. Main one still stands... should someone like myself be here?

T Clark

Come on. You know the answer to your question already. Do you belong here? Come in and see. I don't know about your education, but you write well. I have almost no education in philosophy. I'm an engineer. Just look at how wonderful my posts are. Not to be down on anybody, but although there's a lot of good stuff here, there's also a lot of crap. As for lots of quotes, I have about 10 that I use over and over. Here's one that's relevant. Ralph Waldo Emerson, "Self-Reliance."

To believe our own thought, to believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all men, -- that is genius. Speak your latent conviction, and it shall be the universal sense; for the inmost in due time becomes the outmost,--and our first thought, is rendered back to us by the trumpets of the Last Judgment.

And if you just want to jump around and shout and act like an ass, the Shoutbox, at the top of the first page, is the place for you.

BC

↪Jem

Philosophy is not reserved for the "better educated". Neither is anything else taught to the "better educated" (within limits; I think quantum mechanical engineering might be reserved for the lucky or unlucky few. Same thing for Sanskrit and Babylonian studies).

Intelligent, "better-educated" people vary in their ability to spell and punctuate. I finally learned the difference between its and it's, and when to use semicolons as a middle-aged adult--and I was an English major. I just learned something new about correct spelling the other day -- now I'm 75.

My computer spellchecks on the fly. It adds novel errors of its own, of course.

I keep seeing adds for Grammerly on YouTube; maybe that would help. Or not.

here's the trick: Read carefully; decide what you think about a post. Write in clear, shorter-rather-than-longer sentences. Use words that are familiar to you. (I rarely if ever use the words 'metaphysical' and 'ontological' because I'm still not sure what they mean.). Before you post comments, proof read them, looking for obvious mistakes or ridiculous corrections by Spell Check.

Welcome to philosophy forum. Pick a thread that doesn't look too hairy. Here, about "Is Climatology Science?"

That is a legitimate philosophical question. give it a try. Or try something else.

Possibility

↪Jem

Hi Jem, and welcome to the forum.

I will reiterate what T Clark has written - I think your writing ability and willingness to learn, discuss and develop your thinking is enough to render your efforts here worthwhile. The call for an ‘educated standard’ is to deter the level of some responses you may find in more general online forums. That you demonstrate respect for sentence and paragraph structure, the effective use of punctuation and grammar, and the correct spelling of words is sufficient, I feel.

I also have no education in philosophy, only an interest. I would say be willing to look up and read about the topics and the philosophers mentioned, and then think before answering. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (SEP) is your friend. It’s those who think they know already who may find they don’t belong in the more in-depth discussions, not those prepared to learn for themselves and ask questions of others.

Pop

Are we not all connected? Do my opinions not matter as much? Do I not have the right, same as you, to look at the world and question it? Is that not what philosophy is? The coming together of people to talk and learn? — Jem

Sounds like philosophy to me. Welcome to the forum. :up:

TheMadFool

now I'm 75. — Bitter Crank

Way to go! Diamond Jubilee :party: :flower: Another 25 to go and you'll be a centenarian!

I was just wondering about what @Jem said. While I'm not as good as I'd like to be in English or in philosophy, which would be better for both Jem and the forum? The Philosophy Forum lowers its standards or Jem make an effort to improve his linguistic and philosophical skills?

This comment applies reflexively to me and others like me who are struggling to understand philosophy.

BC

↪TheMadFool

Thank you!

TPF doesn't have to change (lower or raise) its standards. You, Jem, et al can/will continue your efforts. This isn't an elite Philosophy Department blog. It's a public forum, and as such there will always (a guess) be participants with varying levels of sophistication in writing and in philosophy. There is room for a pretty wide range--a big tent.

At this stage in my life, what I'm not good at now is likely to stay that way. Fine. Younger participants have time to improve. And, you know, you don't have to be good at every single area of philosophy, because it like history or literature covers a huge amount of territory. Its time runs from 500 b.c. to the present, over dozens of different categories. You will find some are just the ticket and others you won't be even remotely interested in. All normal. All OK.

Tom Storm

I don't get it.

I came here to read discussions (usually to self conscious to post places.... due to the whole come access as a simpleton because I can't spell) and instantly felt unable to contribute. Is that really the vibe you want to give off?

I know I asked a fair few questions along the way. Main one still stands... should someone like myself be here? — Jem

If you feel like you can't contribute it may be (as you already suspect) because you lack knowledge and critical reading. Anyone can have an opinion, but opinions are like elbows - everyone has them.

Informed, reasoned opinion is precious and in philosophy a theorised view is frequently necessary. Philosophy is not just making shit up - even though metaphysics attracts more than its share of precisely this. But the fact remains, what can we possibly contribute to a discussion about the later Wittgenstein's approach, for instance, without critical reading? Ditto Aristotle or any one of dozens of complex and nuanced thinkers. There's also the history of philosophical ideas on subjects like truth or morality or idealism, which are terrifically complex and diverse.

Like you, I do not have a philosophical education. I came here largely to see what I have missed. I do not expect to make a contribution in technical matters or in critique of a thinker's key approaches, as I haven't privileged the time to explore them. Nevertheless, even if you have read, for instance Heidegger's Being and Time, it's another thing entirely to have understood it or to be able to critique it.

But all this doesn't mean you can't occasionally provide a perspective or ask a question or learn something new. That's pretty much all I do.

TheMadFool

Thank you! — Bitter Crank

You're more than welcome!

TPF doesn't have to change (lower or raise) its standards. You, Jem, et al can/will continue your efforts. This isn't an elite Philosophy Department blog. It's a public forum, and as such there will always (a guess) be participants with varying levels of sophistication in writing and in philosophy. There is room for a pretty wide range--a big tent.

At this stage in my life, what I'm not good at now is likely to stay that way. Fine. Younger participants have time to improve. And, you know, you don't have to be good at every single area of philosophy, because it like history or literature covers a huge amount of territory. Its time runs from 500 b.c. to the present, over dozens of different categories. You will find some are just the ticket and others you won't be even remotely interested in. All normal. All OK. — Bitter Crank

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

Indeed, I remember remarking on a similar thread how every great philosopher began, must so, as a student, a novice, with little to no idea about the subject, making every mistake in the book, falling into traps that litters the philosophical landscape, and losing one's way in the jungle of ideas. True philosophers should, for that reason, be charitable as possible for such new recruits that have been drawn to philosophy for one reason or another.

Good day!

Srap Tasmaner

should someone like myself be here? — Jem

Yes. If you want to.

Most of us are full of shit. Don't believe the hype.

dimosthenis9

Most of us are full of shit. Don't believe the hype. — Srap Tasmaner

Exactly.

James Riley

The old saying goes, every cowboy fancies himself a philosopher. To a certain extent, it's true. If you spend enough time alone, outdoors, inside your own head, shit happens. A man don't need a pack train of book 'larnin' to go philosophizen'. I does help, though, if others can understand what you are getting at.

baker

↪Jem

Don't go where they teach you to drink.

Present awareness

To be where you already are, makes sense, since you can’t be anywhere else! However, it is possible to be lost in thought, daydream or fantasize. In the words of John Lennon: “life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”.

Hanover

In the words of John Lennon: “life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans”. — Present awareness

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Saunders

I love Chom-choms

↪Jem

Dude, My answer is a adamant YES.
I am a 14-year old 10th grader, English is my second language and I learned about philosophy only via a crash course philosophy by the CrashCourse channel.(that's where my name comes from, chom-choms are bananas)
I have absolutely NO qualifications in philosophy, though I am planning on choosing philosophy in 11th. When someone uses any technical terms that I don't know, I go to the Stanford dictionary and if that discussion required you to have formal knowledge then I don't enter but there are very few such discussions. If you just make reasonable arguments and are willing to accept that you are wrong then no one here (I think) can, even if they want to, order you to leave a discussion.

Present awareness

↪Hanover

I heard it first from John, but John scooped it from Allen, as your link shows!

Shawn

Sorry, I only speak American.

To be here or not to be here, honest question.

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