The Nazis were firm believers in your position; not mine. — Cheshire
See the tool example. Everything doesn't have to be either/or. There are gradients in life. But the left, in general does not stand up on their hind legs when doing so might keep us all from war. They let the right push them around and use those methods until war becomes necessary. Then they get their asses up off the couch, kick some ass, and go back to their lives. Maybe if they stood up a little sooner, engaged in a little push-back, speak a little of the right's language, then we would not end up in a war. So yeah, fuck Trump and his acolytes. I hope the DOJ burns them down. — James Riley
In principle it sets one further apart from Nazism.How is *not* devaluing Nazis going to prevent one from becoming a Nazi? — James Riley
Considering things in the context of active military engagement presupposes quite a bit. I'm not sure it's suited for broad application; unless normalizing the state of war is desirable.So were the Allies allied against the Nazis. — James Riley
In principle it sets one further apart from Nazism. — Cheshire
Considering things in the context of active military engagement presupposes quite a bit. I'm not sure it's suited for broad application; unless normalizing the state of war is desirable. — Cheshire
I share the sentiment with regard to the struggle in today's landscape. Taking the 'high road' in the moment looks like weakness, but we forget it's a choice. It is often frustrating to play by the rules while the opponent would cheat at every turn. — Cheshire
I don't recall saying this or suggesting it; which proves my point better than my argument.You might say that if it somehow went away, then we would be all kumbha ya. — James Riley
A person unwilling to devalue the worst amongst us in principle, will never devalue the innocent in practice. In practice is where it matters and in principle we create the boundaries that prevent falling into the same patterns with different names.I'm not asking about me. I'm asking about the prospective Nazi. — James Riley
To paraphrase one wag: "When Michelle Obama says 'When they go low, we go high' I'm thinking 'How about middle?'" — James Riley
I don't recall saying this or suggesting it; which proves my point better than my argument. — Cheshire
A person unwilling to devalue the worst amongst us in principle, will never devalue the innocent in practice. — Cheshire
In practice is where it matters and in principle we create the boundaries that prevent falling into the same patterns with different names. — Cheshire
It's not all gold. — Cheshire
So were the Allies allied against the Nazis. — James Riley
No, everyone who does this sort of thing believes it's ok to dehumanize part of the human population.
You're one of those. — frank
Do you not understand what I'm saying here? You are demonstrating the flaw of assigning thoughts to a person based on your perception of the group of people you have in mind. And doing so inaccurately.I don't recall saying this or suggesting it; which proves my point better than my argument.
ā Cheshire
The fact you don't say or suggest something proves a point better than argument? Hmmm. I'll have to take that one under advisement. — James Riley
Fair enough.I've got not truck with that. I just apply it differently. — James Riley
Do you not understand what I'm saying here? You are demonstrating the flaw of assigning thoughts to a person based on your perception of the group of people you have in mind. And doing so inaccurately. — Cheshire
It's what I quoted is what I took issue with; maybe sit with this a minute. I'll assume your right till you let me know otherwise if it helps. — Cheshire
Sorry, frank, but you need to brush up on your analytic reading skills. We have expressly distinguished between dehumanization and devaluation. I'll wait while you catch up. — James Riley
What's the mark of distinction? — frank
The dynamic Xtrix created that influenced your interpretation of my position. When he devalued the group of people that might caution against thinking like a nazi; suddenly the thoughts of the person that holds a cautionary principle is worthy only of dismissal or easily attributed absurdist views.What am I missing? — James Riley
If it prevents one from becoming a Nazi then maybe it's a worthwhile consideration.
ā Cheshire
It worked wonders for Chamberlain. :roll: — Xtrix
Devaluation recognizes the "humanity" of the person or group that is devalued. It just notes that they are worthy of less consideration in the making of plans. — James Riley
It is. Much more benign than dehumanization. — James Riley
The dynamic Xtrix created that influenced your interpretation of my position. When he devalued the group of people that might caution against thinking like a nazi; suddenly the thoughts of the person that holds a cautionary principle is worthy only of dismissal or easily attributed absurdist views.
I'm not even saying you are wrong, only that your beliefs about my position were unduly influenced in a way that doesn't serve the truth of things. It does serve a willingness to set ourselves above others. Which is what the Nazis did. I wouldn't have selected that group as an example of who we ought give consideration toward; but if I can present a reasonable argument against the worst example, then maybe my thoughts have objective merit. I always expect and receive fair treatment in our discussions. I have no complaints. — Cheshire
The issue aren't the specific claims (whether the topic is slavery, climate change, or the pandemic, or whatever), but the basic mode of interaction.When it starts to effect society, the education of future generations, and the future of the planet, then I don't take this position anymore. I think it should be called out -- but whether one should bother spending time running through claim after debunked claim, that's a different question entirely. — Xtrix
My question is whether we should engage with them -- assuming I'm correct about their irrationality. — Xtrix
Do you really think that farting a few quips of contempt in the general direction of those you don't like is going to make them change their minds and become more to your liking, err, "finally see the truth"?new agey, pseudo-Buddhistic bullshit. — Xtrix
contempt — baker
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