By information I understand "ideas" (signs, heuristics, algorithms) encoded in – processed by – a physical system. — 180 Proof
they then can be processed as (they become) "information". — 180 Proof
I think that the first step in dispelling the materialist delusion is to understand that there is a causal relationship between abstract ideas and physical things. — Metaphysician Undercover
I think that the first step in dispelling the materialist delusion is to understand that there is a causal relationship between abstract ideas and physical things. The second step, is to understand that unlike simple processing, where 'processed' is the effect, in the case of abstract ideas, the ideas are the cause and artificial goods are the effect.
dispelling the materialist delusion — Metaphysician Undercover
Once "ideas" are encoded onto a physical system by being changed accordingly by another physical system (e.g. recording music) they then can be processed as (they become) "information". See the link provided in my previous post. — 180 Proof
You moved on to the second step too soon. You may understand it, but could you offer a little more so I could too. — Mark Nyquist
We have material brain states and these brain states have the ability to hold abstract ideas, so you can have material brain states in a causal relationship with material things. Why would that be a delusion? — Mark Nyquist
The view that abstract ideas can exist unsupported and can affect physical matter...? — Mark Nyquist
I wouldn’t describe it as “the materialist delusion”. But rather an ideology which doesn’t (from its own perspective) require a sentient being as the knower of abstract ideas. Take that knower out of the system and nothing has been lost. — Punshhh
I don’t think we as people who attribute a more fundamental role to the knower in this can dismiss this view. We are simply on the other side of the intellectual division between idealism and materialism. The other side of the same coin. — Punshhh
I didn't say anything about being unsupported. — Metaphysician Undercover
I've used the term brain state as both static and dynamic. Physical brains will always be in a dynamic state and information linked with brains will always be in a dynamic state. I agree, any theory of information that uses a static state is suspect. — Mark Nyquist
A dynamic brain holding mental content is physically equal to a dynamic brain state, as a definition. — Mark Nyquist
Obviously, "ideas" do not cause themselves to be encoded. :roll:So the ideas are changed by a physical system. How is this not a casual relation between ideas and a physical system? — Metaphysician Undercover
And that causal relation between an idea and physical system is what? — 180 Proof
Ideas" are abstract and therefore are not in causal relation to facts. — 180 Proof
Unencoded "ideas" cannot affect physical systems and, in this sense, are not informational (vide C.S. Peirce, A. Turing, C. Shannon, S. Wolfram or D. Deutsch ... re: — 180 Proof
Your posts just don't make any sense.Did you ever take lessons on how to use the English language, 180? — Metaphysician Undercover
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