The upshot is that the sense is in a state of flux. Nevertheless we can maintain a distinction between what is the case, and what is believed to be the case; and mark this distinction with care by distinguishing fact from belief.Choose whatever words you will, this distinction must remain, since without it there can be no error, and without error we cannot improve our understanding. — Banno
Nevertheless we can maintain a distinction between what is the case, and what is believed to be the case; and mark this distinction with care by distinguishing fact from belief. — Banno
An earth worms world is dirt. A bird's world is the sky. Dirt and sky are not the same thing thought about differently. — Yohan
I think pain pills and hypothermia might be interesting, a whole psychedelic death journey, with my last moments being perhaps the most exciting. If I did have to hang, I think I'd want to the broken neck. I'd prefer the guillotine though, if I had to offer my neck. — Zugzwang
How do facts obtain as true?
That question is what I wonder about facts... — Shawn
No matter how convinced we might be about reality eluding our beliefs about it, we have no choice but to talk in terms of facts and truth and what is the case. — Srap Tasmaner
Apo would give us the metaphysical explanation about "sharp cuts" and whatnot. I tend to think in terms of commitment, wagers, that sort of thing. — Srap Tasmaner
This is problematic for those who want there only to be belief - perhaps that's T Clark and @Olivier5; If all there is, is belief, then Kelly-Anne Conway wins, since her belief is as valid as theirs.
Throw out truth at your peril. — Banno
I think the thesis that there's only belief is more an expression of attitude. — Zugzwang
We had a long discussion years ago in which he insisted that Mount Everest did not have a height until it was actually measured. — Banno
We put the world in order by the way we talk about it. There are apples and chairs because that is what we say there are. We might have spoken differently.
But that's not to invite relativism; the world still inflicts itself upon us; what is the case will be the case regardless of how we express ourselves. We have to divide the world up somehow, we commit to the divisions handed to us by our community because they work. — Banno
Perhaps it has something to do with animals being forced to move, forced to act. 'Reality' is something like the model an animal is most likely to act on. — Zugzwang
Sure, scepticism has been the fashion for quite some time. If it were kept as an attitude, as a method, there might be no issue. But folk talk of it as if it were a metaphysics; as if Everest really did not have a height until it was measured. — Banno
That's very close to how I look at it. Forced to choose, to act, to place our bets, to say one thing rather than another and then be accountable for what we say. All that.
I do still find it slightly curious that this shows up at the language level, but I probably just haven't thought about it hard enough. — Srap Tasmaner
To me this sounds very clunky. Do you think all of reality is clunky? To me its like rocks and dirt. All these technical things. Part of being in the dirt. I'd rather be the bird.We live on the surface of a planet surrounded by gaseous nitrogen within a temperature range between -10 C and 50C and able to perceive a limited range of sound waves and electromagnetic radiation yet the Andromeda Galaxy, x-rays, and quarks are part of our world. — T Clark
It does still feel a little funny having words like "truth" and "fact" around we've given definitions we can only aspire to use and never reach. I used to think a lot about the role of the ideal, as something that does have practical use. I'll have more time later tonight. — Srap Tasmaner
actually the height of Everest constantly changes, if only by millimeters, due to continental drift. — Wayfarer
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