But the observations that were done, remain done, factum, unless they were poorly done of course. Any new theory would have to contend with past observations. So observations (and only they) are facts.
So, if you never saw a black swan, that is a fact that you never observed a black swan. The theory that no black swan exists is a different thing, not a fact. — Olivier5
But if the counter to lies is just alternate belief, what's the point?
Isn't the point that the election was fair, vaccines do save lives, climate change is man-made?
If you start from the premise that truth doesn't matter, you've already lost. — Banno
If something can be confirmed as fact, explain how. — Yohan
It would be nice if facts mattered, but they don’t. The wall pushes back until it doesn’t. Your assertion we can never walk through it is true until it isn’t. What was true is no longer true and what will be true has yet to be. Facts are not substance, but wispy things that evaporate the harder we look or the harder we try to hold them. (Go ahead, start with the block universe.) — Ennui Elucidator
And now of course it's neither what nor how, but what a great guy or girl you are. With exceptions: some people are just plain smart, and smart enough to recognize they'll have to row their own boat. And life itself, which can and does administer its own correctives. — tim wood
What was a “fact” before is merely the limitation of the utterer to achieve their purpose, not some feature of metaphysics. — Ennui Elucidator
So some guy posts a video as to why and you suppose that is true for all eternity. Many a scientist was firmly convinced of many an error, why do you think your (or his) certainty creates facts where other people’s certainty failed to create facts before? — Ennui Elucidator
A fact is everything. Everything that is is a fact. That's a fact. A fact of life. Every thing is a fact. Evey fact is a thing. Undeniably, Falsifiably, confirmably, liably. Factual knowledge is knowledge about these things. For example: Hannover is written with two n's. — Donkeywelling
I wasn't speaking about science when I gave my example about WWII, so I'm not sure I follow what you're saying in this part. It wasn't a scientific fact, but a historical one.
Faith is faith because it is based on belief alone, with little to no attention to facts. Science and religion in this sense are not compatible when describing the same situations. Sure, science is not sure proof, but nothing is. It's just that science is the best tool we have for ascertaining facts about the world.
Absent good evidence, we need good reasons to belief so and so. Philosophy can help us here. But if you want to speak about facts and how they relate to religion, I don't think one will get very far. — Manuel
↪Athena I think facts are what true propositions assert. So if the proposition "It is raining" is true, then that it is raining is what's being asserted. That is, it is a fact that it's raining. Not married to that analysis, but it sounds about right to me. — Bartricks
I don't see how the belief that reasoning is the way to resolve conflicts is somehow a democratic principle. — T Clark
I like the focus on decision making. — Zugzwang
'a fact is the kind of statement that all us reasonable people consider true, for now.' — Zugzwang
Indeed, you did. — Banno
So truth matters. — Banno
We may, for example say factual claims about fictional works. For instance, Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984 is a male and a party member, even though there is no Winston Smith in the actual world. — Manuel
On the one hand, I see no reason to think we can separate observation and theory like this. Facts are theory-laden. That's the lesson of mid-century philosophy of science and that's the lesson of neuroscience today.
On the other hand, I do believe reality pushes back, and we need to capture that somehow. — Srap Tasmaner
Is a story about a god walking in a garden with a man and woman and that this god cursed them because they ate a forbidden fruit, a fact? — Athena
A lot of people who hate Trump want to drive the bus off a cliff as a matter of principle. — T Clark
But with a president like Trump who appeals to our emotions but not our brains and a mass that does not understand logic and the difference between nonfiction and fiction or what science has to do with democracy, the challenge seems overwhelming. — Athena
The story is a fact. — Inplainsight
You must be a citizen of the US or maybe a member of the Taliban in Afghanistan? What is your understanding of democracy if it is not understanding what reasoning has to do with democracy? Do you understand what freedom of speech has to do with democracy? Science gives us information that is essential to good moral judgment. The whole climate change discussion is about what has caused climate change and if we can and should do something to correct a manmade problem. There are political and economic and life and death ramifications, to understanding science and what behaviors will increase or decrease our shared problems. — Athena
Don't worry dear, you do not need to know the difference between fiction and non-fiction because all you have to do is obey the authorities who handle everything for us. — Athena
What's wrong with appealing to emotions? What's so important about the brain? Emotions need a brain to flourish too. — Inplainsight
Well, maybe we would be done with Covid if Trump had not dismantled the department that was about preventing or at least controlling pandemics, and maybe the economic pain would have been much less if the pandemic had been handled properly from the beginning instead of having a President who denied science and lied to everyone, and is still the king of ignorance flooding our hospitals and requiring refrigerator trucks long after everyone should have been vaccinated. — Athena
Nothing is more important to this thread than understanding the importance of science, and citizens who understand what science has to do with our survival and democracy. — Athena
Here is the answer to your question. — Athena
Again, I don't get your point. I don't and never did support Donald Trump. I think he was a bad president. What does that have to do with this discussion?
Nothing is more important to this thread than understanding the importance of science, and citizens who understand what science has to do with our survival and democracy.
— Athena
If that's the point you've been working toward, you set the OP up badly. This thread so far has not been about what you refer to. It's not what I've been talking about. It's a bit late to turn it in that direction. — T Clark
The fact that science is one story amongst many. — Inplainsight
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