Yes, this is exactly what he’s doing. “In addition to mandates” makes that clear, along with prior things he’s written. You’ve simply misread it because you don’t want it to be the case, unfortunately. — Xtrix
So he was absolutely opposed to interfering with people's freedom of choice 'for their own good'. Which is what this is all about.
If the vaccine works, then the unvaccinated pose no threat to the vaccinated. — Bartricks
Description. Saying that X is necessary for Y is not the same as saying "we ought to do X". — Bartricks
I probably should have been a lawyer. — Bartricks
But he doesn't explicitly defend them. — Bartricks
Because breakthrough cases happen, as we’ve know all along, because those out there who aren’t eligible or can’t get vaccinated for other reasons are also vulnerable, because it’s impossible to get to herd immunity if 40% of the population refuses, because this allows the virus to mutate into more deadly variants, and because hospitalizations are overwhelming hospitals, leaving staff having to make extremely hard decisions. — Xtrix
He does, both here and in other things he’s written. Again, I’m sorry this runs counter to what you want to believe. I can’t help that. — Xtrix
And what I want to know from you is whose rights those who freely decide not to take up a freely available vaccine are violating. — Bartricks
but he hasn't explicitly defended mandates in that article. — Bartricks
“Rather than restricting liberty, these strategies are necessary to achieving it. COVID-19 vaccine passports and mandates are past due. They are not too coercive. They will produce quick results and save lives. Ethics falls on the side of creating liberty through freedom from plague. Dawdling around using failed strategies just means more misery and less freedom.” — Xtrix
but he hasn't explicitly defended mandates in that article.
— Bartricks
:lol: — Xtrix
No one’s. Same with the solitary drinker or drug user or smoker. — Xtrix
Correct. Thus there is no case for intervention. — Bartricks
If people don’t want to vaccines, fine— then isolate yourself. You have no right to spread the virus to others — to the vaccinated out unvaccinated. — Xtrix
Yeah, how? I don't think you gave a reason in what preceded this question. 99 doctors to 1 doesn't translate to 99% odds, not if all we know is that they are doctors. If the 99 doctors, when I ask them how they know heart surgery is the best bet, respond with something like "That's just how its done. I am following what I was taught in medical school". Then I will doubt their wisdom. If the 1 doctor who recommends an alternative to heart surgery, and gives explanations that make sense to me and examples of former satisfied clients, I may trust him over the 99 doctors. Not necessarily, but there is a chance. I have personal experience of family who have not listened to medical experts and came out well of it. On the other hand, this same family member later in life agreed to preventative heart surgery. In other words, he had no issue, but his doctor recommended it as a precautionary measure because of his age. He took the surgery and it severely compromised the quality of his life as a result.How do we know that going with the majority of experts is more likely to be true, or more likely to give us the results we want? — Xtrix
I agree to this, this is barely a kind of "ethical" question. I think the good people not ready to get a vaccine should avoid getting infected for own egoistical reasons. Getting that germ is no walk in the park. That should be reason enough not to go hugging galore.This seems an incredibly naive belief, and it is not a consensus in the medical ethics community. Many countries have not implemented any sort of vaccine passport, precisely because it is in stark contradiction with forced medical procedures, of which it is a foundation of modern medical ethics not to do, so much so that it is put into laws that are very difficult to change, essentially constitutional (and many medical ethecists say shouldn't be changed).
And domestic vaccine passports are not the same thing as needing a vaccine to travel to a different country (where you are a guest and are not "forced" to go to) nor for participation in a relatively minor set of professions (you are not "forced" to have that profession).
Forcing everyone to undergo a medical procedure by making life practically impossible without it, is obviously a controversial thing in medical ethics. Nazi's thought they were "improving society" too; and, that institutions can go disastrously wrong (if not today, then maybe tomorrow) is the foundation of the moratorium on forced medical procedures in favour of "informed-consent" based medicine. — boethius
If you're not violating someone else's rights, then even if what you're doing is stupid - and not getting a vaccine is stupid - then no one is entitled to stop you doing what you're doing. Indeed, you need to butt out and let people live the lives they want to lead. Let them, to use Mill's term, engage in their own 'experiment in living'. — Bartricks
I agree to this, this is barely a kind of "ethical" question. — Ansiktsburk
Should you consider expatriation so as to find valuable community members? — frank
No, I have friends in low places. — James Riley
Ultimately, in this case, you might literally get held down and given a shot: — James Riley
If it's a war, we lost already. All the variants will be endemic in the US. — frank
This seems an incredibly naive belief, and it is not a consensus in the medical ethics community. — boethius
Forcing everyone to undergo a medical procedure — boethius
And I am an ethicist and I think it is unethical. — Bartricks
What's your view about unprotected sex? Should it be allowed? Spreads disease. Should we ban it? — Bartricks
99 doctors to 1 doesn't translate to 99% odds, not if all we know is that they are doctors. — Yohan
You will surrender your fellow human beings an — James Riley
And there you were, championing the treatment of the enemy instead of soldiers and innocent civilians. You know, first come, first serve. — James Riley
Now there could be an insurgency. And pay back at the polls. I guess we'll see. — James Riley
No, it isn’t. You have no right to harm others. — Xtrix
Not forced any more than school and work vaccinations have been forced, for decades in fact. — Xtrix
It's part of us now. You may as well accept it. — frank
Unvaccinated people aren't my enemies. They're fellow citizens. — frank
I doubt it. — frank
If the vaccine works, then the unvaccinated pose no threat to the vaccinated. — Bartricks
On the other hand, business will be good for you. Though I suppose it always is. — James Riley
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