Making life essentially impossible without an internal vaccine passport, is a use force. — boethius
What happens if you don't have your papers? Fine or prison. What if you don't pay the fine? Prison. What if you don't voluntarily go to prison? Force. — boethius
but common pro-vaccine-mandate sentiments on the internet are: denying care to the vaccinated and making life impossible without your "papers". — boethius
my basic point in this threat is that vaccine issues are no where close to the shape or age of the earth — boethius
We can always abstract things into irrelevance, cutting some corners/particulars here and there. We still have to deal with the current outbreak.. — jorndoe
I don't think I want to continue to line of thought any more.By the way, ad verecundiam/populum isn't quite applicable here. The world (nature, evidence) is the authority here anyway, that's what subject matter experts point at.
The transmission of more severe cases is troubling, but how many people are inclined to go clubbing when they have, say, the flu? How likely is it that a mild case will transmit and become a severe case in a vaccinated person? — AJJ
How much risk should we be eliminating from our society? — AJJ
Regarding transmission, I think people can take care of themselves — AJJ
The matter is primarily psychological and ideological.Is even the elimination of the risk Covid-19 poses worth mandated medical treatments? — AJJ
Issues of social psychology need to be taken into account. In times of crisis, people tend to give up critical thinking. It's not clear for how many people this applies, but some of those for whom it does apply are extremely vocal and influential. Resisting those people can result in short-term and long-term harm for the resisters.
There are also issues of the placebo effect, en masse: If enough people have enough faith in the covid vaccines, the covid vaccines can, in effect, be more safe and more effective than they would be without that faith.
Is it moral to refuse to participate in a mass social delusion, if said delusion can have at least short-term good effects for society at large and for the individual as well? — baker
Cars are a lot safer than they were fifty years ago, or even twenty, and we still drive. — Srap Tasmaner
and how sick you are has nothing to do with how sick someone you infect gets. Is that your understanding as well? — Srap Tasmaner
Asymptomatically infected people typically produce virus at lower levels. Though there is not a perfect relationship, usually more virus equals more disease. Therefore, vaccinated people are less likely to transmit enough virus to cause severe disease.
Regarding transmission, I think people can take care of themselves
— AJJ
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. — Srap Tasmaner
Of all the concerns the public has about vaccine safety, there is one that has us stumped for a straightforward answer: “If the vaccines are safe, why is the government protecting itself, health professionals and companies from vaccine compensation?” In fact, the UK government has passed regulations reducing legal protection for anyone injured by a COVID-19 vaccine approved for emergency use.
/.../
Generally, vaccine safety is excellent, which makes it even more incongruous that the government is not putting its money where its mouth is and providing a clear, generous and uncomplicated compensation scheme that would immediately quash any concerns the public has.
https://theconversation.com/uk-citizens-get-less-legal-protection-for-covid-jabs-than-other-vaccines-and-that-could-undermine-confidence-151455
I'm interested in questioning if the experts are worthy of trust. — Yohan
This whole covid crisis has long since stopped being about the virus or health, but about people seeking ways to feel good and to feel safe. — baker
Of course, the more radical left has not at all been surprised. We usually call it "late stage capitalism".
Here's some sample content: — boethius
Until I see that someone is actually open to questioning their chosen experts, why waste time if I'm gonna be replied to with platitudes, comparison to flat earthers and climate change deniars etc — Yohan
I was never serious about questioning which experts?You were never serious about questioning the experts, nor are you an expert yourself. — Xtrix
Including answers to ethical questions on vaccine mandates? Which medical ethicists should I trust, because I am pretty sure its not 99% who think vaccines should be mandated? But anyway, I thought I'm not qualified to judge if their answers are compelling or not because I'm a layman?Any sophomoric question you have are out there for experts to answer, and they have -- and it's all over the internet. newspapers, the internet, and at your doctor's office. — Xtrix
I do wonder how the trade-off is made though, as children in school together represent an excellent way for diseases to spread from household to household, even colds, flu, and the like. — Srap Tasmaner
And, of course, in some jurisdictions, for a death to be ruled a covid death, no covid test and no autopsy are required, just the assessment of a doctor.Given that most people who die from/with Covid are at the ends of their lives anyway you can expect natural deaths and Covid deaths to significantly overlap. — AJJ
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.