Maps and statistics aren’t partisan. But interesting that you’d take it personally. Pretty revealing. — Xtrix

Really, they aren't? I guess those with fanatical dispositions , political biases or agendas never manufacture statistics and maps. We are all safe to believe all statistics and maps without nonpartisan scrutiny. Very convincing.

The issue are anti-vaxxers, ignorance, and misinformation — Xtrix

The issue is, the world is full of morons, both left and right

I guess those with fanatical dispositions , political biases or agendas never manufacture statistics and maps. — Merkwurdichliebe

So you're suggesting, without evidence, that vaccination rate numbers are wrong -- or that hospitalization rates/death rates are wrong, or both.

It's amazing how many conspiracy theorists this site attracts. They have to undermine all evidence, consensus, and credibility -- because none of these are on their side. So they must be wrong. Excellent reasoning.

Very convincing.

The issue is, the world is full of morons, both left and right — Merkwurdichliebe

I'm realizing that right now.

So you're suggesting, without evidence, that vaccination rate numbers are wrong -- or that hospitalization rates/death rates are wrong, or both. — Xtrix

Am I suggesting that? By no means am I or would I. I have no issue with any statistics you provide concerning vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates. Very strange mind you have, in which post of mine did you transmute that I was speaking about vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates?

If I am suggesting anything, it is that the current vax program, as it stands in the here and now, is impotent and incapable of eradicating covid as a public health concern. And, if I understand correctly, that the goal is to achieve herd immunity, immunity being the operative word..."IMMUNITY"... then we need to vaccinate a suffient percentage of the global population with permanent immunity in order to achieve IT.

It doesn't even have to be permanent, just a long enough duration that it cannot become pandemic.

I'm realizing that right now. — Xtrix

Which are you, right or left?

Am I suggesting that? By no means am I or would I. I have no issue with any statistics you provide concerning vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates. Very strange mind you have, in which post of mine did you transmute that I was speaking about vaccination rate numbers, or hospitalization rates/death rates? — Merkwurdichliebe

I'll jog your memory. I referred you to the NY Times global map of vaccination rates and death rates. This followed.

Looking closer into the map, the cases spiking right now are among the states with high rates of unvaccinated people— mostly states run by Republicans.
— Xtrix

Sounds like you are partisan minded. Just a cop out — Merkwurdichliebe

No, a fact. Maps and statistics aren’t partisan. — Xtrix

Really, they aren't? I guess those with fanatical dispositions , political biases or agendas never manufacture statistics and maps. We are all safe to believe all statistics and maps without nonpartisan scrutiny. Very convincing. — Merkwurdichliebe

So now you're saying that accusing me of being "partisan" was pertaining to the FACT that these rates are occurring "mostly in states run by Republicans"?

So here we have two sets of facts: (1) vaccination, hospitalization, and death statistics per state and (2) the political affiliation of those states governments.

I suppose it's "partisan minded" to link these two sets of facts? An odd thing to say, considering it's very well documented that conservatives are far more likely to refuse the vaccines than other demographics.

But continue gaslighting if you'd like.

So now you're saying that accusing me of being "partisan" was pertaining to the FACT that these rates are occurring "mostly in states run by Republicans"? — Xtrix

Sorry, I was being facetious. I don't give two shits about political parties. They are the lamest parties ever thrown, and I say fuck off to bothofem. But you started it.

So here we have two sets of facts: (1) vaccination, hospitalization, and death statistics per state and (2) the political affiliation of those states governments. — Xtrix

Again, you are drawing correlations. Prove the causation and you will have ground to stand on. I respect ground standing more the wind walking.

I suppose it's "partisan minded" to link these two sets of facts? An odd thing to say, considering it's very well documented that conservatives are far more likely to refuse the vaccines than other demographics. — Xtrix

There you go again, talking parties. I wish I could take you to one of my parties, you would never be the same again.

But continue gaslighting if you'd like. — Xtrix

Accussations from the one who has been trolling and gaslighting for pages. Resorting to ad hominem, typical of the defeated sophist

Accussations from the one who has been trolling and gaslighting for pages. Resorting to ad hominem, typical of the defeated sophist — Merkwurdichliebe

Good one! :grin:

it.

So here we have two sets of facts: (1) vaccination, hospitalization, and death statistics per state and (2) the political affiliation of those states governments.
— Xtrix

Again, you are drawing correlations. — Merkwurdichliebe

No. Stating FACTS. Those two sets of facts, above, are exactly that. They’re beyond question, unless you’re questioning the accuracy of the statistics.

It’s also a fact that these states have Republican governments.

the one who has been trolling and gaslighting for pages. — Merkwurdichliebe

Lol. Good one, Donald Trump.

It's true the US stands out with an unusually large number of cases and deaths.

I think there are probably multiple reasons for that, resistance to medical advice being only one of them.

The others are things like: a large migrant community (we're like India in that way), a high incidence of heart disease, obesity, and diabetes, and the fact that we're the world's only superpower means we're not exactly out of the way.

I think there are probably multiple reasons for that, resistance to medical advice being only one of them. — frank

True, one of many. But I'd say the main one. There's studies on this. 18% of men say they will never get the shot. 46% of Republicans have not yet been vaccinated; 44% of White evangelicals. They give their reasons, as well: 75% of all groups are "skeptical" of both COVID and its vaccines. 90% say they aren't concerned about getting sick and are less convinced the vaccines work.

And so on. It's by far the biggest factor among the unvaccinated -- and right now, it's exactly the unvaccinated that are being hospitalized and dying. Well over 90%.

I don't think we'll ever have herd immunity for it the way we do with measles. — frank


That's my thought. I'm still trying to find the current level of herd immunity the experts say we're at globally, but no luck yet. — Merkwurdichliebe

My understanding was that herd immunity, if it was ever a genuine possibility, is in the rear-view mirror now, and that SARS-CoV-2 will become endemic to the human population, like a handful of other coronaviruses. That might mean annual covid shots, or might mean eventually catching covid is catching a cold. In the meantime, the vaccine is for reducing illness and death and to some degree transmission.

If we got vaccines that really conferred immunity, then herd immunity would be on the table again.

And so on. It's by far the biggest factor among the unvaccinated -- and right now, it's exactly the unvaccinated that are being hospitalized and dying. Well over 90%. — Xtrix

Yes, I know.

:up:

By vaccine logic all sexually promiscuous people should be vaccinated "just in case"!!!
Man you folks are paranoid and illlogical in your will for cocoon like security.
I'm surprised some of you leave the house. There's cars and roads everywhere!
If you have been dumb or scared enough to get your magic medicine vaccine then what's your problem?
If the vaccine works why are you worried about those that haven't?
You guys don't believe in freedom you believe in herd instinct.

Famous last words...

Yawn! Two years of "plan-demic" and not so much as a scratch or anybody I know with a scratch.
Biggest and only casualty is the truth.

Possible explanation for the European and American COVID19 mortality rate

Interesting possibilities!

Yea. I was interested that it said attenuated live virus vaccines provide broad coverage for CoVs. Maybe they need to start working on those (if they haven't already).

:up: It seems reasonable that all potentially viable strategies should be tried.

Illicit fried chicken and criminal travel. Thank god for the brave men and women of the Auckland Stasi for protecting everyone’s lives.

A police spokesperson told the BBC that officers made the arrest after they noticed a suspicious looking vehicle travelling on a gravel road on the outskirts of the city.

"Upon seeing the police car, the vehicle did a u-turn and sped off trying to evade police," they said. "The vehicle was searched and police located the cash, alongside empty ounce bags and a large amount of takeaways."

Police photos showed at least three buckets of chicken, about 10 cups of coleslaw, a large package of fries, and four large bags containing other KFC items.

They also seized NZ$100,000 (US$70,000; £51,000) in cash.

It is unclear whether the men intended to sell the food or if they hoped to use it as a distraction if they were to be pulled over.

New Zealand Covid: Men caught smuggling KFC into lockdown-hit Auckland

Another statistical mark reached by the present pandemic:

COVID-19 has now killed more Americans than the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic did, when roughly 675,000 people died.

By Tuesday, the number of COVID-19 deaths in the United States had passed 676,000, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

About 1,900 Americans are now dying in the United States every day, on average — the highest level since last March. A simulation model designed by researchers at the University of Washington predicts an additional 100,000 Americans will die of COVID-19 by Jan. 1, 2022, which would bring the total death toll to 776,000, the AP reported.

Or alternatively, the actual statistical inference.

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2021/04/25/is-it-really-true-that-the-u-s-death-rate-in-2020-was-the-highest-above-normal-since-the-early-1900s-even-surpassing-the-calamity-of-the-1918-flu-pandemic/

...but hey, who cares about anything like justified statistical inference when there's a drama we can milk.

The actual death rate in America today is about the same as it was around the year 2000. Remind me, what was the massive terrifying crisis around the year 2000 that we had to all fly into an hysterical panic about? Oh yes...it was heart disease, cancer, accidents, influenza and suicide... and what global unprecedented action did we take to minimise those deaths?...oh yes...fuck all.

About 50,000 people die every day because of the effects of poverty. What massive global action are we taking to prevent those deaths?...oh yes..fuck all again.

Yesterday I was in the train and there were two teenagers next to me not wearing their face masks properly (under their chin). I asked them "Could you please wear your face mask over your mouth and nose?" (Which is repeatedly broadcasted as the rule on Dutch trains). Well, I was accused of all sorts of things, including a Nazi. And they were banging on about "I do what I want".

So I asked them "You've never helped anyone out of your own volition?" "You've never done something for someone else?" That's when they started cussing me out (it's all on the net somewhere because they were filming all the time, I might go viral, hooray!). No reply really.

Any way, they didn't do it, so I waved down the ticket inspector. All of a sudden face masks were on. It's amazing how afraid these people are of people in a uniform and immediately listen. In the end they blindly obey authority when they're confronted with it (whatever happened to "I do what I want"?). She still kicked them off the train though at the stop. Lots of swearing and middle fingers in my direction; so I thanked them for their seats.

It's amazing how afraid these people are of people in a uniform and immediately listen. — Benkei

They were being implicitly threatened with violence. That is why they were afraid. Nothing strange about that. With violence or threats thereof you can make people do all sorts of amazing things.

The only ones threatening with violence where those guys themselves towards me simply because I cordially asked them to follow the rules. They were itching for a fight; I simply refused to give them an excuse. These were rules they agreed to when they decided to use a service that requires them to do so and they were fully aware of the rule as the little sycophants were wearing the masks right before the ticket inspector arrived. So they're little pussies that have a big mouth when there's no consequences to their behaviour - much like some posters here I suspect.

In a lawless environment where I could've beaten the shit out of them without repercussion, I would have. So, thank god for "implicit" threats of violence. Saved those kids a few broken legs.

If you don't want to wear a mask, don't get on the train.

You were going to break their legs?