No. History/politics, natural sciences & the arts, not philosophy, are truth-pursuits.

After a more complete understanding of Reality?
No. The real (sublimely) surpasses, or exhausts, understanding.

After happiness?
No. 'Pursuing happiness' is like trying to hold on to smoke or chasing rainbows.

Would you agree then with the assessment that the search for Truth, for a more complete understanding of Reality, for happiness, are all connected?
No.

And that deep down this is why you do philosophy?
N/A. — 180 Proof

:fire: Keep it coming!

i) Life+Pleasure=Happyi) Life+Pleasure=Happy
ii) Life−Pleasure=Sadii) Life−Pleasure=Sad
iii) 2Life=Happy+Sad (Equation i+Equation ii)iii) 2Life=Happy+Sad (Equation i+Equation ii)
iv) Life=12Happy+12Sad (From equation iii) — TheMadFool

Have you ever noticed how sad so many happy people are?

Have you ever noticed how sad so many happy people are? — Tom Storm

Sorry, I was too sad to notice.

I'm chasing after new words and sentences they are contained in. Philosophy is ideal for that, reading all the beatifully constructed comments here. :smile:

Hmmm - what does that even mean? Aphorisms are amusing but are they anything more than glib provocations? — Tom Storm

"What does that even mean?" whenever I read this line I imagine a baby analytic philosopher hitting his little fist against his chair demanding meaning! meaning! but that aside. It is a metaphor and Nietzsche wrote a couple of pages explaining it rather clearly, especially considering how he usually writes. Anyway both appear in a certain way and both demand a certain approach.

"What does that even mean?" whenever I read this line I imagine a baby analytic philosopher hitting his little fist against his chair demanding meaning! meaning! but that aside. — Tobias

Sounds like you've had a bad experience. Not sure I have ever met an analytic philosopher.

But I note that you didn't explain the quote and since you used it, I was wondering what you were saying through it about truth and women? Feel free to borrow further from Nietzsche if that helps.

Sounds like you've had a bad experience. Not sure I have ever met an analytic philosopher. — Tom Storm

No not really, most analytic philosophers I met were perfectly nice people. I just find the question "what does it even mean" a bit chidish, probably because they use it a lot, so in that sense you might be right. Also you asking me to explain Nietzsche I find a bit odd,"hey tell me what it means!" While I would say either know it, or look it up.

But anyway, I do not mind explaining and talking about it a bit. Well, I liked the reference because Nietzsche had a nice chapter about how philosophers approach truth, in a crude way as if truth will immediately answer every question posed to it. So he compared truth to a woman, You do not approach a woman like that immediately demanding looking up her skirt. I liked the quote saying I am not looking for truth or other high minded persuits, but I like to approach women by doing philosophy. So it was a bit playful. It is not untrue though, I think philosophy is actually profoundly sexual and that its imagery and lines of argument are sexual metaphors.

Ok. Thanks. I don't understand your account of what Nietzsche means but I find generally find Nietzsche unreadable (even the Kaufmann translations) so that's fine. Personal taste and things... I suspected it was more in the manner of his antipathy towards women and foundationalism.

as if truth will immediately answer every question posed to it. — Tobias

Truth by definition leaves no follow up questions except, perhaps why? But that's another matter for another time.

I think philosophy is actually profoundly sexual — Tobias

I consider sex profoundly philosophical so I guess it takes all sorts. :wink:

I just find the question "what does it even mean" a bit chidish — Tobias

I would have thought this a key question of philosophy. Most things seem to go wrong when we don't understand each other. But perhaps my putting the word 'even' in there gave it a slightly hectoring rhetorical quality which was unintended.

:pray:

Busy day for the moderators.

I'm not chasing after anything with philosophy; I'm simply watching it flow past like a murky stream. The days of the classical philosophers are gone, but their dated thoughts come up over and over. That's fine with me. The natural sciences and mathematics have moved on and philosophy has given way to speculation leading to advancements.

However, philosophical discussions on social and legal issues seem relevant.

I'd like to smooth out a metaphysical system I like to find as many continuities as possible between most fields of knowledge, if at all possible.

Interesting, and this is not intended as criticism - does this make you a system builder, a theorist - neither or both?

That's hard to say. I don't personally like the word "theorist" too much, I think it is often invoked by people who studied the social sciences, as I have, (international relations, comparative politics, history, etc.) as a kind of badge of honor when there are no theories here worthy of the name.

So maybe a system builder, perhaps, of "rationalistic idealist" variety. Whatever the name, I think there are similarities between a vast range of different fields. But it starts with the subject, I think.

But by all means, criticize or argue. Otherwise I won't learn as fast.

View from different aspects and logical clarity on the issues.

:up:

I'm fond of that 'woman-truth' metaphor as well, to which I add another quote-fragment that extends (intensifies with my added emphasis) Tobias' quotation

"And thus spoke the little old woman: You go to women? Do not forget the whip!" ... for Her to use :sweat:
~Freddy Zarathustra — 180 Proof

which I've always interpreted as 'while truth concealed by dissembling feminine-like appearances' ..., 'truth is a dominatrix' to which every 'truth-seeker' must submit – never possessing or ever controlling her. For Freddy, 'the will to truth' is more often than not emasculating, or de-naturalizing (re: technoscience "disenchants" instead of cultivates human nature (i.e. higher animality)), a life-negating (weakening, even sickening – "slavish") expression of the will to power. Loving this 'goddess Truth', at best Freddy suggests, is never fully reciprocated and exacts a profound psychological, or spiritual, price which her suitors must deny to themselves, or sublimate somehow, in order to live with her faithfully on their knees. Freddy, IMO, seems to be saying to Enlightenment, science-envying, modern philosophers et al: amor fati, bitches. :smirk:

I think following would be a better description than chasing. Curiosity leads me wherever it wishes..somehow I’ve found myself here. :chin:

I'm fond of that 'woman-truth' metaphor as well — 180 Proof

Thanks for clarifying it. It's beyond me but good to know.

which I've always interpreted as 'while truth concealed by dissembling feminine-like appearances' ..., 'truth is a dominatrix' to which every 'truth-seeker' must submit – never possessing or ever controlling her. For Freddy, 'the will to truth' is more often than not emasculating, or de-naturalizing (re: technoscience "disenchants" instead of cultivates human nature (i.e. higher animality)), a life-negating (weakening, even sickening – "slavish") expression of the will to power. Loving this 'goddess Truth', at best Freddy suggests, is never fully reciprocated and exacts a profound psychological, or spiritual, price which her suitors must deny to themselves, or sublimate somehow, in order to live with her faithfully on their knees. Freddy, IMO, seems to be saying to Enlightenment, science-envying, modern philosophers et al: amor fati, bitches. :smirk: — 180 Proof

I agree, but I read Nietzsche also as calling forth an active spirit. We need to submit, but also to command in the sense of setting values, proclaiming truth, governing as well as being governed, in a state of tension, For me it is closely related to the master slave dialectic and Foucault's concept of power as both enabling and dominating, a dance in which at some point the ,movements start to flow into each other and who leads and who follows becomes unclear. I think the relation between truth and power is one of Nietzsche's most profound and productive insights, but how he sees the relationship exactly is ambivalent.

But then, yesterday with a hidden reference to one of your self descriptions Proof, I called myself a truthtrickster in response to a plea to criminalize denying climate change on the basis of our obligation to tell the truth. Here I saw truth and power to coincide withouth the speaker knowing it. So I am sceptical of seeking the truth, the relationship is more important. That is why for me philosophy is about seduction, a game in which, when done correctly, the participants share mutual love. When played with truth: your love for truth deepens and so does her love for you, that is, she makes life easier. Possession though, or utter submission ends the game and makes one a dogmatic, dry and Nordic.

Have you ever noticed how sad so many happy people are? — Tom Storm

It's called "smiling depression".

It's called "smiling depression". — baker

Smiling cynism seems more appropiate. I wonder if they know what a true depression feels like.

Aristotle answers this question in a direct fashion that I appreciate. To summarize:

We wonder what is going on in this place we have arrived. The wonder is natural, not as a description but the discovery of a condition of knowing very little. We seek knowledge for the sake of knowing. The desire is different from wanting to produce better or get our way in the world. It is its own thing.

To not accept the desire on those terms is an argument. To accept them is simply acceptance.

It's called "smiling depression".
— baker

Smiling cynism seems more appropiate. I wonder if they know what a true depression feels like. — Thunderballs

No, I'm talking about "smiling depression":

Usually, depression is associated with sadness, lethargy, and despair — someone who can’t make it out of bed. Though someone experiencing depression can undoubtedly feel these things, how depression presents itself can vary from person to person.

“Smiling depression” is a term for someone living with depression on the inside while appearing perfectly happy or content on the outside. Their public life is usually one that’s “put together,” maybe even what some would call normal or perfect.

https://www.healthline.com/health/smiling-depression

By some accounts, this is the most dangerous type of depression and that it's such smilingly depressed people who are more likely to commit suicide.

No, I'm talking about "smiling depression": — baker

I had a hard time hiding it. When Corona came along I could use it as a nice excuse to stay indoors. I didn't leave the house for eight months. Didn't sleep for 4 months! I quit my med cold turkey. Now I feel freed and the beast of depression, that depressing animal, doesnt return. Im sure!