I think that it is worth looking at other cultures as much as it is important to look at the past, in order to open up the imagination to the widest scope of possible options for understanding life and the symbolic dimensions. — Jack Cummins
When you believe in things that you don't understand you suffer .... — 180 Proof
Patriarchy, God, and being institutionalized by what we are told is the kingdom of God — Athena
Jesus didn’t come out of the experience as an all-conquering emperor. — Wayfarer
On the third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
What society makes of that is another matter. — Wayfarer
We are exploring what that has to do with liberty and being free souls versus being institutionalized. A spiritual notion is we are free spirits having a human experience. This spirit is connected with the force of life, our planet, and all life on it, rather than the external Father, Son, and Holy Ghost of Christianity and the Roman Empire. — Athena
but I come from the perspective of having been socialised within these traditions. — Jack Cummins
I believe that idea systems within the Native American, Celtic and other systems adopt more of a shamanic model, with more of an emphasis on transforming this life as opposed to the way in which mainstream religions often present rigid dogmas and doctrines concerning salvation and ideas of a reward in a life after this one. — Jack Cummins
Yes. The Celts, Native Americans, and others will rapidly kick out an impostor.Might you have any thoughts on this? — Athena
A hodge-podge of stuff an outsider can safely dabble in, flirt with, never committing to it.But how do we define 'the spirituality of the Celts'? — Apollodorus
A hodge-podge of stuff an outsider can safely dabble in, flirt with, never committing to it. — baker
Theoretically, yes."Outsider"? You mean there are modern insiders to Celtic spirituality? — Apollodorus
Edit - this should be in the 'God 'n that' category which I usually have switched off to avoid this very response (but it's done now). — Isaac
But my point is that one cannot choose to become a member of those cultures and spiritualities mentioned in the OP. One can read books about those cultures and spiritualities, and think "Oh, how cool, I'd like to be like that as well", but that has no bearing on whether one will actually be accepted as a member into those cultures (and some of them are gone anyway). A such, one can never properly conduct their spiritual practices or make sense of the world they do. — baker
Why are people in a democracy talking about a kingdom instead of principles of democracy and how did it feel to be a Celt or Native American before Rome and kingdom spread? — Athena
In the main, the evidence is of tribes being led by kings, although some argue that there is also evidence of oligarchical republican forms of government eventually emerging in areas which had close contact with Rome. Most descriptions of Celtic societies portray them as being divided into three groups: a warrior aristocracy; an intellectual class including professions such as druid, poet, and jurist; and everyone else.
know that you are definitely not trying to make a case for Christianity or Catholicism, but I come from the perspective of having been socialised within these traditions. The secular and institutionalized aspects have such implications stemming from the masses and the hierarchy of the Church. It is extremely authoritarian and this applies to other mainstream religions, especially the Islamic religion.
I think that this leads to people often exploring alternatives ranging from people simply rejecting all forms of religion or spirituality, to looking for alternatives within other cultures. Of course, it is possible to end up seeing them in an idealistic way which may be so different from the experiences of the people living in the midst of such systems of ideas. But, one aspect which I believe that it is important in all free spirited approaches is the emphasis on personal experience of the numinous.
This can occur within the context of any cultural context but it often follows a more shamanic conception of experience, which is about the experiences of the lower and upper realms of consciousness, with a view to the enhanced individual experiences and insights for culture. I believe that idea systems within the Native American, Celtic and other systems adopt more of a shamanic model, with more of an emphasis on transforming this life as opposed to the way in which mainstream religions often present rigid dogmas and doctrines concerning salvation and ideas of a reward in a life after this one. — Jack Cummins
Apparently, pre-Christian Iron Age Celtic social structure was based on class and kingship: — Apollodorus
Ancient Celtic religion, commonly known as Celtic paganism, comprises the religious beliefs and practices adhered to by the Iron Age people of Western Europe now known as the Celts, roughly between 500 BCE and 500 CE, spanning the La Tène period and the Roman era, and in the case of the Insular Celts the British and Irish Iron Age. Very little is known with any certainty about the subject, and apart from documented names, which are thought to be of deities, the only detailed contemporary accounts are by hostile Roman writers, who were probably not well-informed.
If so little is known about Celtic religion, I wonder how much is known about Celtic spirituality? — Apollodorus
Do we live in fear of God organized by a hierarchy of authority and power, or do we live with the spirit of freedom and liberty and rejoicing in our individual power and glory? — Athena
Jack Cummins presents a more universal understanding of spiritualism and social organization before the Father in Heaven replaced the mother. — Athena
Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God? (1 Cor. 6:19)
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