Summary
For both postmodernism and modernism, as the meaning of any artwork resides in the mind of the artist or observer and not the artwork, and as quality is a mental concept, then the quality of the artwork resides not in the artwork but in the mind of the artist, or observer — RussellA
But could an object have either meaning or quality if no-one ever had knowledge of its existence ? — RussellA
Yes. Derain in 1905 created the object Estaque which provides the observer's mind with something to consider, thereby allowing the concepts meaning and quality to be applied. — RussellA
If you want to describe what goes on in in experience as self organizing, you will have further trouble accounting for what this self is that is autonomously at work. Are you treating the self as something that is its own presupposition? — Constance
To see something aesthetically.
You’ve claimed that the aesthetic is an integral part of experience itself, however, which seems to mean that we always view things aesthetically. Clearly that is not the case, so once again I’m asking what you mean by that claim. — praxis
None of that explains how “the aesthetic is an integral part of experience itself.” In the etymology of the word aesthetic, it at first only meant perception. Maybe you mean it like that? Perception is an integral part experience. — praxis
But the idea is that to perceive at all is inherently aesthetic — Constance
I really don't think this is true. It's more like an artist's work is like a seed. Something grows from that seed in the viewer or listener. — frank
Art is about mind meeting mind, so an expression of consciousness. — Pop
But doesn't this also describe any experience humans have, — Tom Storm
The problem for me is that this fact is not unique to art, it describes almost anything you care to experience. Seems to me there's no difference between looking at a tree in the twilight and looking at the Mona Lisa. — Tom Storm
You give me an insight into your intelligence, your intent, your sympathies, your talent, your demographic, your politics, your spiritual beliefs, etc, etc. A whole bunch of information which I have to interpret with my consciousness, just like a conversation on TPF. — Pop
Cool to hear someone describe it this way, as being creative is so commonly only associated with the arTIST. — praxis
I often find myself making a distinction between craft and art. Is a pair of exquisite, hand made shoes an example of art or craft? I tend to go with the latter, because the experience isn't just aesthetic, but must also be practical and be located in a lineage of other such traditional artifacts. Is a great and talented chef an artist or a craftsperson? We often throw the word 'artist' around as a type of free-range compliment - the barista down the road from me is called an artist by people in our office, etc. — Tom Storm
I'm partly in sympathy with this except that a genuine conversation has more clarity and is an exchange and we can ask for clarifications - art is often deliberately irrational and symbolic and hard to discern. Also, artists can notoriously disguise their true selves behind a wall of craft. — Tom Storm
Likewise Rap symbolizes a certain cultural view, but it is not one I can warm to, so I do not listen to it. — Pop
Like you define it, art becomes empty and meaningless. Just some vague idea about information, self-organising structures, and "consciencenesses" (why don't you say "people"?) is introduced. I'm sorry to say but your definition is inhuman. — ArisTootelEs
Whether you like the definition or not, it is what is always present in art, so is the only way to define art. — Pop
Dewey held that as we live and breathe, we experience the world aesthetically, AS art, if you will. — Constance
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.