If you're alluding to apatheia, maybe the difference between active indifference and passive indifference — 180 Proof

Care to expand on that a bit? At the end of the day, apatheia is, as some like to put it, coming to terms with the brute facts of reality.

With understanding comes acceptance. Acceptance can never happen without understanding. Resignation is as what you mused above -- one has no choice or lacks energy to quarrel. — Caldwell

See my reply to 180 Proof. To resign oneself to one's fate is to accept what's happening and what one thinks will happen.

I can't make my meaning any plainer or clearer. Read the Stoics.

I can't make my meaning any plainer or clearer. Read the Stoics. — 180 Proof

I think I get it now. Acceptance of facts/truths is to be content with how things are. Resignation is to be discontent with how things are, that because one is exposed to how things can be/could've been. The wisdom in the former is that one doesn't wish the impossible (that would be stupid) and the foolishness in the latter is one's asking for the impossible. Does it make sense to desire impossible things?

Resignation = give up prematurely on something good and possible, due to discouragement (self-doubt etc) This is a reactive response to adversity. To run away.
Acceptance = "I gave it my best shot and it didn't work out for me. At least I tried my best. Time to move on and try another approach, or change to a more realistic goal." This means to stop resisting a fact.
There is also stop resisting what needs to be done: "This will be tough. I accept that this isn't going to be an easy thing to achieve, but I'm willing to sacrifice short term minor comfort for long term superior comfort"
Acceptance is dynamic and adaptable. Resignation is giving up due to inability to adapt to things not conforming to plans?

I think in life I tend to resign more often than accept. I am a master procrastinator.

To run away. — Yohan

I thought resignation & acceptance meant one can't flee from truths.

Acceptance is dynamic and adaptable. Resignation is giving up due to inability to adapt to things not conforming to plans? — Yohan

The way it seems to me is both acceptance & resignation involve adapting oneself to facts, the former cheerily and the latter begrudgingly.

The way it seems to me is both acceptance & resignation involve adapting oneself to facts, the former cheerily and the latter begrudgingly. — TheMadFool

You can accept things that are hard to accept. Cheer doesn't have to factor into it.
From google definitions:
begrudgingly: reluctantly or resentfully.
"he somewhat begrudgingly accepted a reduced role for the better of the team" (Google's example sentence. Underline added)

Resign: accept that something undesirable cannot be avoided.
synonyms: reconcile oneself.
I don't like that I will have to die some day. But I don't begrudge the fact. Its a neutral word, though its application is to undesirables.

The first part of the transformation of data to information and knowledge makes sense to me, but the last phase does not make sense to me. It sure does not happen naturally. — Athena

How about data, information, and knowledge are various parts of a car, while wisdom is the one that steers the car? One actually has to practice driving to get good at it. Reading about cars, roads, and driving isn't enough

You can accept things that are hard to accept. Cheer doesn't have to factor into it. — Yohan

You mean to say that a person, the sage obviously, who accepts truths/facts doesn't gain happiness/pleasure/contentment from it?

From google definitions:
begrudgingly: reluctantly or resentfully.
"he somewhat begrudgingly accepted a reduced role for the better of the team" (Google's example sentence. Underline added)

Resign: accept that something undesirable cannot be avoided.
synonyms: reconcile oneself.
I don't like that I will have to die some day. But I don't begrudge the fact. Its a neutral word, though its application is to undesirables. — Yohan

Word play, my friend. Not interested. It's clear that resignation is not a desirable state of affairs, hence, begrudginly accept one's circumstances (I don't like it but I have no choice).

Fair enough I guess.

Fair enough I guess. — Yohan

Yep!

Why is some adaptation done begrudgingly and some done cheerfully?
I think resignation and acceptance may have to do with the degree of one's adaptation. In resignation one adapts one's behavior, while the mind stays fixed in old expectations. If the mind also adapts, it becomes acceptance.
Or, how does the distinction of resignation and acceptance fir into the question of wisdom?

You mean to say that a person, the sage obviously, who accepts truths/facts doesn't gain happiness/pleasure/contentment from it? — TheMadFool

Hard truths, like that we are all going to die some day, may start out as begrudging acceptance, but eventually lead to peace and joy. "Begrudgingly" means one has not fully adapted yet, psychologically.
That's my current understanding anyway. If you aren't interested in discussing it, that's your prerogative. :smile:

To accept & to resign, to use a chess analogy, seems to be aware of what pieces are still in the game, where they are, then to strategize for a win/draw/stalemate & to realize that checkmate is a foregone conclusion, there being no point playing any further respectively.

↪Yohan To accept & to resign, to use a chess analogy, seems to be aware of what pieces are still in the game, where they are, then to strategize for a win/draw/stalemate & to realize that checkmate is a foregone conclusion, there being no point playing any further respectively. — TheMadFool

If you and your opponent are in equal positions, say at the start of the game, your acceptance of that fact is probably emotionally neutral.
If your position is advantageous to your opponent, if you appear to be likely to win, or have won, you may accept that fact cheerfully.
If you are in a disadvantageous position to your opponent, or have lost, you may accept the fact reluctantly or begrudgingly. However, if one has no skin in the game, one may resign without any dislike of the fact.
However I do agree that the word choices aren't the important distinction.
And that the distinction of attitudes of acceptance are important. The ideal would be to accept everything cheerfully.

The ideal would be to accept everything cheerfully. — Yohan

Why?

Why? — TheMadFool

Being reluctantly accepting of everything is painful.
Being neutrally accepting of everything is emotionally pointless.
Being cheerfully or gratefully accepting of everything is an end in itself. Inherently "good" in that it feels good, may be good for one's health, and may be contagious. Further, its easier to be accepting when you're feeling gratitude.

If everybody had to be attacked by a lion to know lions are dangerous, we would have a world full of amputees, severely scarred people, not to mention very well-fed lions. With IQ, vicarious learning is possible, greatly increasing the odds of survival and, if you've mastered the art of learning from the bad experiences of others, a good life. With experience, you'll learn all right but, as people have told me n number of times, the hard way. — TheMadFool

Wow, maybe our wisdom is dependent on our teachers? I don't think in the west we pay much attention to wisdom? In the US we have much reliance on religion, but I don't think that equals wisdom. Some people get wisdom from the bible but not many.

I am glad I am smart enough to avoid lions and meth, but I am also old enough to know it seems almost impossible to pass on wisdom. Plenty of parents have pleaded with their children to learn from their parent's mistakes and don't repeat them. It would be super if people avoided drugs and stupid behaviors, as easily as they decide to avoid lions. What prevents people from being wise enough to learn from others?

How about data, information, and knowledge are various parts of a car, while wisdom is the one that steers the car? One actually has to practice driving to get good at it. Reading about cars, roads, and driving isn't enough — Yohan

I like that.

I am having a social problem. It is a lifelong social problem. I am no good at making small talk. I have no interest in engaging in small talk. When I was young, my mother was worried about my lack of desire to be popular. Years later I would rather be in the forum, than socializing with my neighbors. So I don't think wisdom comes naturally. I think we need to need to think about what we think to develop wisdom. I don't think most people think about what they think. And when I began reading philosophy, I was blown away by the questions philosophers have asked!

And I have known some very smart men. Men capable of earning a lot of money because of how smart they are but that doesn't make them wise. In contrast, is people who have traveled and experienced other cultures. Now those people I envy because of what they have learned of other cultures and life. I hobo can be more fun to talk with than some very smart guys.

Being reluctantly accepting of everything is painful.
Being neutrally accepting of everything is emotionally pointless.
Being cheerfully or gratefully accepting of everything is an end in itself. Inherently "good" in that it feels good, may be good for one's health, and may be contagious. Further, its easier to be accepting when your feeling gratitude. — Yohan

Would you please explain that to my granddaughter who appears to be making her life hell by her very sour outlook? It seems common for the young to be defensive and unaccepting of what an older person says. It seems many are trapped in pain, instead of realizing the miracle of being grateful. I think we need to learn how to be happy. In some cultures, this may be easier or than in other cultures? I think this is something worth looking into.

Being overly materialistic might be harmful? By materialistic I mean the opposite of animistic. Believing people, places, and things make us happy or unhappy, rather than realizing the importance of attitude.

I can't make my meaning any plainer or clearer. Read the Stoics — 180 Proof

I am a hedonist. :grin: I believe in the pursuit of happiness as Cicero and Jefferson understood it.

Does it make sense to desire impossible things? — TheMadFool

In activist ( agonist) politics it's said: "Be realistic, demand the impossible!" :victory: :mask:

I think I get it now.

Perhaps this:
• acceptance = affirm that X is best / least bad of alternatives;
• resignation = deny that there are any alternatives to X.

What prevents people from being wise enough to learn from others? — Athena

I dunno! Maybe something about vicarious suffering à la Jesus. Did we learn anything from Jesus (Christianity/religion)?

Does it make sense to desire impossible things?
— TheMadFool
In activist (agonist) politics it's said: "Be realistic, demand the impossible!" :victory: :mask:

I think I get it now.
Perhaps this:
• acceptance = affirm that X is best / least bad of alternatives;
• resignation = deny that there are any alternatives to X. — 180 Proof

My interpretation:

1. Acceptance: No options. I don't mind it.

2. Resignation: No options. I mind it, I hate it.

Whatever.

If only elitist slaveholders like Cicero and Jefferson had conceived of hedonia as e.g. Epicureans (or Spinozists) do, as a "hedonist" myself I would agree with your remark.

Whatever — 180 Proof

:lol: I've always wanted to say "whatever!" I've never been in a situation where I felt "whatever!" was appropriate. I'm not happy, not happy at all!

Being reluctantly accepting of everything is painful.
Being neutrally accepting of everything is emotionally pointless.
Being cheerfully or gratefully accepting of everything is an end in itself. — Yohan

Cheer doesn't have to factor into it. — Yohan

:chin:

:rofl:

I don't know what you are seeing there. I don't consider cheer a necessary factor in acceptance, but I do consider it the most inherently pleasing response one can have toward a fact. I'd rather be cheerful than merely neutral, or worse, begrudging.

Edit:
If we consider reality one big fact or collection of facts, what do you think is the best response?
Gratitude, neutrality, or disappointment?

See my reply to 180 Proof. To resign oneself to one's fate is to accept what's happening and what one thinks will happen. — TheMadFool

"Accept" is the word we commonly use. But since we are here in this thread discussing it, you truly don't believe that resigning is accepting, right? You utter the word "accept", but really it's not intellectually coherent without understanding. By understanding we mean, rational and logical. If you can't justify something, you can't accept it. Acceptance is a choice. Resignation is giving up.

Acceptance is a choice. Resignation is giving up. — Caldwell

Go on...