Are you speaking of a pre-verbalized thought? It all springs from the unconscious and suddenly appears in my consciousness where I watch it spew out of my mouth or onto my keyboard.

I have had moments in altered states of consciousness where i have become aware of pre-verbalized thought. It was as if there was pure information flow between concepts in an unorthodox manner that didn't make sense but somehow algorithms brought it in to a comprehensible correlation of words.

The rawest form of an idea could be expressed by the number "0". With words, one could postulate the same choosing a term: so 0 might equal now. "Now" therefore is the rawest idea, and everything was built upon it this idea, including, for example, our sense of self. We can only "exist" at the present moment as a result, so we "are", regarding our abstractions of past and future.

What is an example of a raw form of an idea? Seems like a metaphor passed for logic.

I am talking about the experience one has before one´s own sentence is created. That feeling which allows you to start and finish a sentence.

The awareness of the sensation of a feeling.

The assumption that there would be something to translate, and necessary for starting and finishing a sentence, is unwarranted. For example, it is not necessary to have experiences of walking on the moon in order to be allowed or able to talk about it.

Poetry.

It's a restless hungry feeling
That don't mean no one no good
When ev'rything I'm a-sayin'
You can say it just as good
You're right from your side
I'm right from mine
We're both just one too many mornings
An' a thousand miles behind. — His Bobness

You don´t have a feeling that guides your argument? The thoughts you experience cannot come out verbalized. Who is feeding you this structured information?

it is not necessary to have experiences of walking on the moon in order to be allowed or able to talk about it. — jkop

But you need at least the experience of thinking/feeling (I have yet to know wether there is true difference between the two) how it would be like to walk on the moon before you activelly talk about it.

You don´t have a feeling that guides your argument? — Perdidi Corpus

An argument is guided by the truth of its words.

The thoughts you experience cannot come out verbalized. — Perdidi Corpus

First, with what sense organ do you experience a thought? Second, if you can think, but can't verbalize it, then the problem is just poor vocabulary. Any thought can be verbalized.

Who is feeding you this structured information? — Perdidi Corpus

Whence the assumption that someone would be feeding me structured information?

But you need at least the experience of thinking/feeling (I have yet to know wether there is true difference between the two) how it would be like to walk on the moon before you activelly talk about it. — Perdidi Corpus

Thought without feeling is empty, feeling without thought is blind, but talk is a use of words, recall, and our lack of experiences, thoughts, or feelings of how it would be like to walk on the moon won't prevent us from composing insightful sentences of what it's like to walk on the moon.

I am talking about the experience one has before one´s own sentence is created. That feeling which allows you to start and finish a sentence. — Perdidi Corpus

Do you mean to suggest there is one special sort of feeling that always proceeds your utterances? I'm not sure I've encountered that sort of thing in my experience.

Sometimes I seem to notice a feeling of impulse in association with an intention to voluntary action I am about to discharge, say, waving my arm or starting a set of bench presses. I suppose sometimes I notice such an impulse when I am about to make an utterance. But this sort of feeling, which I associate with voluntary action in general, is not what I would call an "idea". And when it precedes a speech act, it surely is not an idea that becomes "translated" into or expressed by my utterance.

Sometimes I feel a pain and say "ouch" or "quit it". If a doctor's prodding me, I might feel a pain and say, "That's where it hurts". In this context my feeling of pain is not an idea expressed by that sentence, it is the hurt I am reporting, and it figures into my sentence in virtue of other thoughts in my head, thoughts about the context of utterance, none of which is identical to that pain.

Likewise, if I'm tasked with playing sentry by watching out the window for a certain car to appear, I might feel a rising energy and flush of affect before and during my report, "It's here." This feeling doesn't seem like an idea to me, but rather seems to be part of a physiological response to seeing that the car is here.

I might call the thought that the car is here an idea, and the thought that the pain is here an idea, but my feeling of excitement when I see the car is not the same as my idea that the car is here, and my feeling of pain when I am prodded is not the same as my idea that the pain is here.


Sometimes I'm struggling with a vague idea, not sure what I mean or how to put it into words. In what form does the idea occur to me, how does it make itself manifest to my awareness, if it has not yet found its way into words, and is not accompanied by anything like an imaginary picture in my head? I suppose I'm willing to call this sort of awareness of a vague idea a sort of "feeling" -- somewhat as Hume notes a subtle feeling that accompanies belief.

Call my awareness of my vague idea a feeling. Should we say that this feeling is identical to the idea I am about to express, or rather that this feeling is an awareness of the thinking that works over my idea until I'm prepared to let it loose by speaking?

Could it be either? How could we tell the difference?

I'm inclined to say such a "feeling" is or involves an awareness of thinking, but is not itself an idea.

Before you define a term you have not yet worded, do you not have a feeling of what that something is?

What is the rawest form of an idea? How should one go about translating it into language? — Perdidi Corpus

The words or the language, as they are written or spoken, do not seem to play any role in my mechanism of thought. — Albert Einstein

This quote is why Imagery in Scientific Thought by Arthur I. Miller is on my reading list, and why I think that ideas may be nonverbal or verbal, even: nonverbal first, then verbally encoded (as in Einstein's case).

Are the sources of ideation limited to perception, sensation, thought (including imagination), and emotion? In other words, besides adventitious and factitious ideas, are there innate ideas?

Perhaps an investigation of Ideasthesia can help resolve the OP?

From previous research (sorry, I can't remember the reference) modes of ideation include:
(1) Perceptive
(2) Cognitive
(3) Intuitive
(4) Iconic:
(a) Mimetic
(b) Osmotic
(5) Verbal

What is the rawest form of an idea? How should one go about translating it into language? — Perdidi Corpus

Wouldn't it be what those ideas are composed of - sounds, shapes, colors, smells, etc.? After all, words are simply colored shapes and sounds.