Is there a law in the US -- and do name it, post a link to it! -- according to which covid vaccination is mandatory? — baker

There is no such law -- and there doesn't need to be. Just as there doesn't need to be a law that people have to wear green hats -- yet a company can still fire you for not wearing one.

Under labor laws, employers have the right to set their terms and conditions of employment — if a worker doesn't comply, a company can give them the ax. This also applies for COVID-19 vaccinations, according to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

"The EEOC has made clear that individuals can be required to take the vaccine as a term and condition of employment. That is subject to requests for accommodation based on medical reasons or sincerely held religious belief," Helen Rella, a workplace attorney at New York-based law firm Wilk Auslander, told CBS MoneyWatch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-refusal-employment-firing-mandate/

(And even if the US has one, many other countries don't.) — baker

True -- but we were talking about the US.

The onus is on those who want to persuade others. — baker

Not when it comes to public health. Anti-vaxxers are refusing to "do something," in this case -- threatening the health of others. So the onus is on them to justify why -- if they want to participate in normal activities like school and jobs. Just as the onus isn't on those who want others to stop smoking inside a restaurant, the onus isn't on those who don't want contract a virus.

Odd that you get this completely backwards and take the side of those deluded individuals who continue to refuse the vaccines.

From Washington Post:

Overall, the military’s vaccination rate has climbed since August, when Defense Department leaders, acting on a directive from President Biden, informed the nation’s 2.1 million troops that immunization would become mandatory, exemptions would be rare and those who refuse would be punished. Yet troops’ response has been scattershot, according to data assessed by The Washington Post.

For instance, 90 percent of the active-duty Navy is fully vaccinated, whereas just 72 percent of the Marine Corps is, the data shows, even though both services share a Nov. 28 deadline. In the Air Force, more than 60,000 personnel have just three weeks to meet the Defense Department’s most ambitious deadline.

I hope people in the military in the US don't get vaccinated because it will weaken the position of the government in effectively forcing people to take medication.

'Anti-vaxxers' - where I'm from - are generally people who refuse to give their children immunization against horrible diseases. Protesting for the right NOT to take a vaccine is fine by me. I guess if I agree with the rights of people not to take vaccines then I'm an 'Anti-vaxxer'?

This is clearly sensationalism at its worst caused by mass media. Covid isn't particularly terrible and we've got a much better understanding of it now so it makes no sense not to get back to normal asap ... and perhaps deal with things that actually kill far more people globally like heart disease (due to greed in the food production industry) and basic poverty (which has been intensified due to lockdowns).

I'm glad people are sensible enough to protest against governments backing employers and actively encouraging them to refuse work to those who cannot, or will not, take a vaccine.

Far more people die from old age than from what you call "horrible diseases," such as polio, but that doesn't mean that we needn't do anything about polio, does it? The impact of the disease is only one part of the equation; what we can and cannot do about it, and the impacts of different actions and inactions are the other parts of the equation that must be considered as well. We can't do much about aging, especially for those who are already aged, but we can do much, and relatively easily, about polio.

Have you done that kind of calculation for Covid?

Sorry, don’t see anything relevant to what I said above.

I hope people in the military in the US don't get vaccinated because it will weaken the position of the government in effectively forcing people to take medication. — I like sushi

That is a very bizarre idea. A debilitated army is what you want? An army sick in bed so that anyone can attack and destroy your nation? The militaries all over the world are vaccinating because nobody wants to have to fight a war when all the army is sick... It is as simple as that.

Ask yourself where does this compulsion to disagree come from.
— Olivier5

You should ask yourself that.

I agree with plenty of people on plenty of things. — baker

You disagree with yourself, though. First you vaccinate, then you argue against vaccination online... Not very logical all that, and quite confused.

I think it’s a strange idea not to allow people to choose what to do with their own bodies. Of course you can say people can do what they want (but they just cannot go to work).

Wearing hats (as someone mentioned above) is not really equivalent to medication.

Maybe you could write to the Pentagon and ask them to gently slow down their vaccination efforts, so you can better spread your ideological bullshit?

? I guess mature discussions aren’t for you. Bye bye.

I guess common sense and patriotism aren't for you then. Ciao...

I think it’s a strange idea not to allow people to choose what to do with their own bodies. — I like sushi

You have a right to refuse a vaccine, you don't have a right to infect others.

I'll repeat this as many times as necessary.

I’m talking about bullying/forcing people into taking the vaccine. If people cannot work when they want to that is bad. People can be tested to see if they have the virus so employers should do that instead rather than have the right to basically force people to take medication they don’t feel safe taking.

You have a right to refuse a vaccine, you don't have a right to infect others. — Xtrix

I think that’s a pretty poor argument anyway. If other people have taken the vaccine then the chances of the, getting infected and dying are very very small. If the chances are not very very small then those refusing to take it have an even better reason not to take it as it wouldn’t be effective.

All I’m trying to do here is a make what I thought was a reasonable and common sense argument against effectively forcing people to have injections they fear and/or don’t believe in. A large number of people who have no problem with taking the vaccine have voiced exactly the same concerns here - including nurses threatening to go on strike at the suggestion of this.

That is all. My point about the army is that if a huge proportion refuse then I doubt they’ll kick thousands of people out fo the army. If they cannot the next step might be to fine them for refusing? That would be pretty horrific but many horrific things happen.

Covid isn't particularly terrible — I like sushi

What a stupid effing comment. How terrible does it have to be? What else would you say that about? And does, or does not, the state have an interest in the well-being of its citizens?

What a stupid effing comment. How terrible does it have to be? What else would you say that about? And does, or does not, the state have an interest in the well-being of its citizens? — tim wood

Well, unfortunately, Covid is especially virulent because it was designed to be so by some stupid. effing scientists, the same ones that are running the stupid effing vax programs. This is what happens when a works goes mad.

However, the human body's immune system is adapting and hopefully the stupid effing scientists don't invent any more effing viruses, but let's face it, the scientists are stupid, which is why they just earmarked billions more for gain of function research. What a stupid effing world we live in.

I think that’s a pretty poor argument anyway. If other people have taken the vaccine then the chances of the, getting infected and dying are very very small. — I like sushi

Other people can still get infected and although their risk of hospitalization or dying is greatly reduced there is still a risk. Also if they have a breakthrough infection and then infect others who are vaccinated the chances that someone will be hospitalized or die increase. Being vaccinated is such a minor thing to do for the sake of those you are close to and the community as a whole that there is no good argument for refusing vaccination. Given that, any reduction of risk to others is a good argument for being vaccinated. Not to be vaccinated is simply a selfish act unless you have a good reason not to be, end of story.

Emotional reactions are not going to get us far in a discussion here. I see the need to attack anyone saying anything sensible by ignoring the sensible points and blowing others out of proportion.

It isn't all that terrible in terms of the cost of life - it will be in terms of the knock-on effects for the poorest people but that is more about how the problem has been handled in a highly politicised environment globally under the shadow of sensationalist media.

The far deadlier repercussions are the manner in which it has been handled and the winding down of the urgency to deal with the problem. I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone backing a mandatory vaccination (even if this hasn't been made 'law' in an absolute sense we're talking about effectively FORCING people to take medication).

Is it really 'effing stupid' when I put those words in this context:

Covid isn't particularly terrible and we've got a much better understanding of it now so it makes no sense not to get back to normal asap ... and perhaps deal with things that actually kill far more people globally like heart disease (due to greed in the food production industry) and basic poverty (which has been intensified due to lockdowns). — I like sushi

The 'terrible' part comes slowly drip by drip over the next decade. We've already seen several problems start to rise due to prolonged lockdowns (backlog of untreated/undiagnosed medical conditions), isolation likely to lead to spike in colds and flus, and the glaringly obvious economic costs that are not immediately being felt (on top of those that are).

As I said, it isn't that terrible as we now have a better understanding of it and vaccines produced. The difficultly was producing the initial vaccine for a new virus now it is basically a job of updating vaccines every year with new strains (NOT completely unique viruses) much like the flu jab in winter.

NOTE: I can already hear the reactionary wheels whirling in people's heads as they read this because they'll say "he just said it's the same as the flu!" NO I DIDN'T! And it is seriously tiring having to point this out.

To repeat, my point here is this ... People shouldn't be effectively forced to put something into their bodies. This is the law for all vaccinations. I may not agree with people's choices for not taking a polio vaccine but it is their choice for their children and if we wanted to protect our children at all costs we'd break the law to do so, but we shouldn't be forced to break the law when it comes to these decisions (that is authoritarian).

Is that clear enough?

Other people can still get infected and although their risk of hospitalization or dying is greatly reduced there is still a risk. Also if they have a breakthrough infection and then infect others who are vaccinated the chances that someone will be hospitalized or die increase. Being vaccinated is such a minor thing to do for the sake of those you are close to and the community as a whole that there is no good argument for refusing vaccination. Given that, any reduction of risk to others is a good argument for being vaccinated. Not to be vaccinated is simply a selfish act. — Janus

Read my previous post. It isn't a 'minor thing' for everyone. You don't need to educate me about Covid trust me on that ;)

The good argument is that it is demanding people do something with their bodies (medical) without a say in the matter. Do you not see how this is dangerous?

People shouldn't be effectively forced to put something into their bodies. This is the law for all vaccinations. — I like sushi

Nobody is being forced except provisionally; that is if you want to do X. The choice is still yours. In any case, why shouldn't People be expected to join in the community and effort and put something into their bodies when there is only a tiny risk to them personally? If you don't want to take the risk along with the rest, then you have the option of not coming into contact with people at all; so the choice is still yours. By the way the case fatality rate for Covid still stands at around 2%, making it about ten times more lethal than the seasonal flu. That said, this situation shows that there is a strong moral argument for getting vaccinated against seasonal flu too. Something good may yet come out of the covid pandemic.

You don't need to educate me about Covid trust me on that ;) — I like sushi

You're not showing any knowledge or intelligence on the subject, so why should I believe you don't need to be educated?

The good argument is that it is demanding people do something with their bodies (medical) without a say in the matter. Do you not see how this is dangerous? — I like sushi

That's an alarmist "slippery slope" argument; it has no rational bite. People are not being asked to do anything remotely dangerous.

I see no one else doing so either?

The 'subject' is forcing people to take medication in the terms I am arguing.

The 'subject' is forcing people to take medication in the terms I am arguing. — I like sushi

And yet no one is being forced; so you are arguing against a strawman.

No, this is a philosophy forum. We're effectively talking about changing the social contract.

If I am wrong about how the difficulties of creating a vaccine show me how?

Being vaccinated is such a minor thing to do — Janus

Really? Based upon what? Your guess? Show me the research on the long term effects of any vaccination. I guess there was is no reason vaccine manufacturers demand immunity from all all lawsuits. And how about all those who are even suffering immediate effects of unknown duration. You know, opioids were also supposed to be "safe".

This is untrue. See article above that I quoted. Member in the US army are being told they must get vaccinated. Others may not be allowed to shop or exist as others because they haven't taken a vaccine.

No one is being forced, so there is no change of contract. I don't understand your other sentence.

@Janus If you believed the same as MondoR then you wouldn't take it. It would be 'dangerous' for you and you certainly would fight to stop your children being forced to too.

Get it?

That is provisionally mandatory: you can leave the army if you don't like it.

And that is fair to you? It is the same as 'wear a green hat or get sacked'? To repeat, this is medication not clothing.

Yes, but MondoR has been brainwashed by propaganda. Stupidity bears its own costs. Juts like with the law: ignorance being no excuse.