And let's start with the facts: You have been at war basically with Pakistan for all the time when it comes to the Taliban. But somehow you have not face this reality. So start at least from there. — ssu

I don't think the US still funds Pakistan. Does it?

I'm not sure just what year was it, but for a long time the Taliban was winning this war, not losing. — ssu

Anyone interested in a discussion would look at this with a raised eyebrow? What does that even mean that the Taliban were winning the war in Afghanistan?

I don't think the US still funds Pakistan. Does it? — Shawn

Of course.

From the US embassy in Pakistan internet page:

During Pakistan’s 2019-2020 fiscal year, the United States was once again the top donor country to Pakistan of on-budget, grant-based assistance. U.S. assistance to Pakistan is always in the form of grants, which does not add to Pakistan’s debt burden or balance of payments challenges.

This commitment reflects our belief that if Pakistan is secure and peaceful and prosperous, that’s not only good for Pakistan, it’s good for the region and it’s good for the world. A stable, prosperous, and democratic Pakistan that plays a constructive role in the region will remain in the long-term U.S. national interest.

Yep! I'm not making up that above. Constructive role. See https://pk.usembassy.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/us-assistance-to-pakistan/


The US trying to bribe Pakistan didn't work. What is utterly crazy is that Pakistan's strategy did work!

Anyone interested in a discussion would look at this with a raised eyebrow? What does that even mean that the Taliban were winning the war in Afghanistan? — Shawn

The usual. Gaining territory, holding cities, gaining the initiative in military operations.

Making their enemies (the US) to choose to withdraw without any concessions from the Taliban side.

That is meant by the Taliban winning the war.

Somehow I’ve always known that those who pretended to fight against dictatorship, authoritarianism, discrimination, executive power, state capitalism, and government over-reach during the last administration would help usher in all of the above during the next.

And here we are. Biden, the POTATUS, stumbling over the words on his teleprompter, just gave license to corporate America to enforce his pro-pharma agenda.

just gave license to corporate America to enforce his pro-pharma agenda. — NOS4A2

That's what happens when you are a petulant, obstinate, disrespectful, inconsiderate, selfish child. I taught you long ago, NOS, that no law, regulation, rule, or policy ever came about in a vacuum, simply as a power grab. They were all the result of people who refused to respect the rights of others. They are taught manners but when they don't learn, the hammer comes down and they whine like little bitches. GO JOE!

Imagine people thinking that Joe Biden was going to be any better than Trump for the environment.

https://www.dailyposter.com/does-not-present-sufficient-cause/

"The Biden administration just declared that the IPCC climate change report "does not present sufficient cause" to halt its plan to vastly expand offshore drilling, according to federal documents reviewed".

Biden is only better than Trump in respect of not being a meglomaniacal lying narcissist. Other than that, not much in it, but it's an important factor.

Biden is only better than Trump in respect of not being a meglomaniacal lying narcissist. — Wayfarer

Except that's not true at all and Biden has broken most of his campaign promises. Although I'll give him credit for pulling out of Afghanistan. And we're talking about someone who has been eyeing the presidency for decades. This man is nothing if not a power hungry vampire.

So Biden is a meglomaniacal lying narcissist?

Yes - as if it were ever in question. But that's par for the course for every American president. It's a job requirement. Trump just had the quirk of personality to make a brand out of it.

Although I'll give him credit for pulling out of Afghanistan. — StreetlightX

Logically you should give credit for Trump too, a peace deal that Biden just implemented. :snicker:

Sure. Although 'peace deal' is pushing it.

Withdrawal from Afghanistan. To turn towards China. Making defence pacts. Another potential disaster ?

No one – least of all Beijing – believes the denials. The new defence pact between the US, UK and Australia is unmistakably aimed at containing China. The question is how substantive it will prove to be.

Joe Biden appears to be realising Barack Obama’s pledge of a pivot to Asia, with US capacity freed by withdrawal from Afghanistan, and China’s behaviour ringing alarm bells internationally. The Aukus pact binds the UK and Australia more closely to the US position, and should augment US military power in the region (though France, Europe’s most significant Indo-Pacific player, is openly furious)...

While many herald Aukus as a momentous step, this is not a treaty but a statement of intent, with even the details of the submarine agreement 18 months away. Setting aside that project (and the real concerns it might open the door to proliferation), we cannot yet tell how significant the pact will be. Faith in US commitments is shakier in the wake of Mr Trump. What is certain is that this further sharpens the divide between China and the west. — The Guardian - the Aukus defence pact - taking on China

Comments BTL interesting...

The US and China are destined to settle into a calm opposition that benefits both. The US is the declining partner, more than happy to see China take up a roll in keeping the globe from descending in chaos. The US provides a relatively sane world for China to grow up in.

When Biden says the US needs to work on infrastructure to compete with China, he's echoing stuff from the Cold War (which I assume he remembers well) where the US needed to fund science and education to compete with the USSR. For some reason the reason has to be tied to national security.

And today's China is actually a lot more sane than the USSR ever was, so good for everyone.

In this boring moment of sanity, there's an opportunity to do a little something about climate change, though I personally think it's too late to do much.

That drone strike we were told averted an ISIS car bomb during Biden’s Afghanistan debacle did in fact kill an innocent family, most of them children.

The Pentagon had said the Aug. 29 strike targeted an Islamic State suicide bomber who posed an imminent threat to U.S.-led troops at the airport as they completed the last stages of their withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Even as reports of civilian casualties emerged, the top U.S. general had described the attack as "righteous".

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-military-says-10-civilians-killed-kabul-drone-strike-last-month-2021-09-17/

No one was fired or resigned or court-martialed for the murder, gross stupidity, and lies to the public.

It's sad

Call me silly, stupid or just paranoid but I expect Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) to leave the Dems soon and either register Independent or join the GOP outright. No adverse consequences for this tr45shy Quisling in (still) GOP-dominated, "fraudit" Arizona. Buh-bye "Biden agenda" (& presidency)! :mask:

14 Oct. 2021

No one was fired or resigned or court-martialed for the murder, gross stupidity, and lies to the public. — NOS4A2

And why would they be? The US was fighting a fucking war in Afghanistan. Collateral damage happens when the only things you have is remote footage from a drone. Try yourself to interpret what is put into a car from an aerial footage.

Besides, knowing you, you wouldn't raise any questions if it would have been the Trump administration in charge. The political party in charge decides what is murder and gross stupidity and what is collateral damage and unfortunate events for you. (And it should be noted, for many American political commentators)

Just as those servicemen that got killed before, that was something that in the chaos was not preventable.

No NOS, this fiasco is genuinely made both by the Trump administration (that agreed to withdraw from Afghanistan without a cessation of hostilities) and by the Biden adminstration. It started right at the moment Bush declared going after the Taliban. And then past adminstrations declaring that they will go home as soon as possible. With that message well drummed up for everybody, no surprise that the Pakistanis then thought "OK, the Yanks are going home, so in that case let's support our guys then again".

And what do you know? The Taliban re-emerged.

It’s not surprising, ssu, that you would attempt to shift blame back to Trump. I would expect nothing else. But it wasn’t Trump who abandoned Americans and Afghan allies while sneaking away in the night. It wasn’t Trump who left billions of dollars of equipment in the hands of the Taliban.

The drone strike was significant because, for the Americans, it was the last act of war in that 20 year campaign. The fake news immediately spread the government line that the drone strike was in retaliation for an “ISIS-k” attack. General Mark Milley said it was a “righteous strike”. These lies only served, however briefly, to distract from Biden’s withdrawal disaster. It was a fitting end to the whole charade.

And now they’ve all moved on. No accountability. Nothing. No protests. We live in a world where a president can be impeached twice for utter nonsense, while at the same time the predecessor and his officials can get away with lies and murder and gross incompetence.

:up:

It’s not surprising, ssu, that you would attempt to shift blame back to Trump. I would expect nothing else. But it wasn’t Trump who abandoned Americans and Afghan allies while sneaking away in the night. — NOS4A2

Sorry, actually it was. Trump abandoned the Afghan allies by making a peace deal with the Taliban without any thought given to the Afghan government. Fuck them! That was the message from Trump.

Of course, you haven't the slightest interest at informing yourself how lousy the Doha peace deal was really like. No, if Trump is criticized, you turn automatically to defense mode. I would not expect nothing else from you.

The Doha peace-deal. What the hell of a "peace" is that? It's nothing else than surrender or simply encouragement for the Taliban to push harder, it's all for their taking. Likely with the Pakistani ISI helped them make their brilliant summer offensive.

Imagine if during the Korean War the armstice would have been done with US and North Korea (and China), but not with South Korea. So, just if North Koreans wouldn't attack Americans they still would be free to attack South Koreans and take ground from the south. Oh yes, they would have to have talks while at the same time be totally free hands to fight them. Imagine what wonders that agreement would have done for the fledgling South Korean army? Hence if it would have collapsed, I guess the people would say "See, they couldn't handle it, they didn't fight!"

(Back then, armstice meant cessation of hostilities. Not same with Trump's "peace-deal")


Nope, both of the two tired old men, Trump and Biden, simply wanted not to hear anymore about Afghanistan, as it was a nuisance. They didn't care shit about it. Hence it was peace at any cost! Both wanted the brownie points for ending the "forever war". Hell with your former allies, just fuck them, they had gotten enough. So I do blame both Trump and Biden.

I read the Doha agreement. It was the one good thing to come out of the Afghan war in decades. What you don’t mention is how it was backed by NATO and the UN Security Council, our allies. You don’t mention the intra-Afghan talks, anything about the process, and Biden’s failure to live up to and enforce the agreements. You don’t mention any of it because you’re crippled by anti-Trumpism.

Biden didn’t care about the agreement. He violated it.

What you don’t mention is how it was backed by NATO and the UN Security Council, our allies. — NOS4A2

What else could the allies do when the US decides on behalf of them? They could only scramble some troops to assist the US with the debacle. Even my puny country sent some soldiers to assist with the evacuation.

You don’t mention the intra-Afghan talks, anything about the process, and Biden’s failure to live up to and enforce the agreements. — NOS4A2

Just as Trump failed to enforce before him as there was nearly one year of Trump presidency still after the peace deal. And just what is this failure? Remember, it's just to hold talks. Nothing, absolutely nothing else. In fact, the Taliban kept their part of the deal: they did hold talks with the Afghan government. As late as July 18th this year Aljazeera could report:

Delegations from the Afghan government and the Taliban said in a joint statement on Sunday that they will meet again and plan to expedite peace negotiations after two days of inconclusive talks in Doha, Al Jazeera has learned.

The negotiators from the rival sides, who have been in Doha since Saturday, said “the two sides committed to continue negotiations at a high level until a settlement is reached”.

(see here)

Committed to talk....and the other side was also comitted to gain a military victory. But they surely didn't attack US troops! Just the Afghan military and others. So where actually Biden was wrong as he dutifully followed Trump's agreement?

And really, don't you think that if you would sign a peace deal, that would have to mean the cessation of hostilities? Trump, the brilliant deal maker, didn't think so. He was so desperate to get the deal.

I too lament the lack of accountability. We should drag all of the military leaders before Congress (more than the sideshow already held), strip them of all of their medals, and fire them all with no pensions. The military strung us along in Vietnam and shame on us for not learning our lessons and letting them have their fun in Afghanistan.

Follow the money.

Follow the money. — James Riley

How about following the stupidity?

The US can in it's foreign and security policy follow illogical, contradictory and unrealistic policies and create it's own alternate reality from the reality on the ground.... because a) it has an armed forces of a Superpower, b) the means to finance the large military operations with perpetual debt financing, c) a system where the foreign policy in these matters is left to the whims of a sitting president, who basically is interested on what will make him look in the next domestic elections, d) a large uninformed public who doesn't care much if the body count of servicemen is low and the most obvious reason d) the US has no counterbalance on the World stage, which would make them think twice.

Because of all the above, the US can find itself in a place like it was with Afghanistan.

The "war is a racket" argument goes just so far, because the military is also a deterrent, hence one can argue also that "peace is a racket" as arms buildup can happen without any actual conflicts. And usually those military arms races are far more lucrative for the military industrial complex. Just look at the starting arms race with China.

as arms buildup can happen without any actual conflicts. — ssu

You just followed the money. The MIC is all about $. That's why Joe Manchin will support a $7t bill for the MIC but not a $3.5t bill for the people.

Also, as to the media:

:up:

How about following the stupidity? — ssu

Nope, they ain't stupid...but they're rich, and getting richer (and I'm envious).

Here’s an interesting challenge concerning Joe Biden. But the challenge is for you, not him.

See if you can watch this entire compilation video of Joe Biden’s love of hair sniffing. — 0 thru 9

Oh god.

Joe doesn't grab 'em by the pussy. That's cool with evangelical Christians now. So is cheating, dishonor, lying, cowardice, and vanity. Oh, how times change. Wipe your ass with the bible and you're in like flint.