Philosophy is a study of the world in the way that I guess engineering is the study of engines. I never said you CAN'T have an understanding of the world/engines without books and training. I'm trying to point out that a) it's more unnecessarily arduous and b) you in all likelihood won't wind up with the best theories/engines you're potentially capable of.
Keep in mind too: The world is much more complicated than a car engine. — Artemis
Trying to do philosophy while rejecting the basic readings and any formal tutelage sounds like trying to build a car without training or looking up an instructions or even looking at the building plans for other cars. — Artemis
Suppose someone told you this about engineering. I'm a lazy person and a lazy engineer. If you're a lazy engineer, then you're probably not a good engineer. The same is true of philosophy. Philosophy, good philosophy, takes a tremendous amount of effort and time. — Sam26
Imagine if someone came off the street, with little to no understanding of engineering, and started telling you how to build a bridge. The arrogance is unbelievable. Of course no one has all the answers, but studying a subject with effort certainly gives you a lead, generally, over those who haven't. — Sam26
Think of the amount of effort it takes to be at the top of any field, it takes a tremendous amount of effort. Most people have no idea how much effort it takes, and how much skill it takes to be one of the best. — Sam26
Professionally, I am an engineer. I'm not a professional philosopher. If an engineer makes a mistake, there are potentially very serious consequences for which they would be responsible. If a philosopher makes a mistake, there's not even a good way to know. There aren't any standards by which to judge. It's silly to try to compare the two disciplines. There's probably no one on the forum who is a professional philosopher. — T Clark
You espouse a curious mixture of disdain for the discipline and the experts therein and yet eager desire to have your own (self-admittedly, uneducated) philosophical views seen as legitimate. — Artemis
See, the thing is, I have repeatedly now pointed out that I'm not actually discrediting the substance of your worldviews at all, because I haven't looked at them. I am merely and solely talking about the difference of how attainable and feasible it is to try and reinvent the wheel/philosophy/engines as a solo person versus by taking advantage of access to the knowledge and practice of literally all of human history. — Artemis
If you for some reason think academia as whole doesn't provide what you mean, can you please elaborate what elements of jiu jitsu (or other) training you mean? — Artemis
Don't know anything about jiu jitsu but I've been practicing to develop skills in oil painting. That discipline and be broken down into various aspects of performance, such as shape, value, edge, color, and composition. Each of these elements can be focused on to improve overall performance. In order to improve edge quality, for instance, a practice method might be to study masterworks that excel in that quality and practice recreating them. Whatever method is used, specific goals for improvement and reliable feedback are essential, as well as lots of challenging practice. — praxis
What methods? Classes, reading, writing, exams, classroom discussions, lectures, etc etc etc. — Artemis
You did lose me when you started talking about going back to a time of innocence. My vision of the state of awareness I am talking about is right here, in front of us, right now. It's not mystical. It's just look at this. Listen to this. Pay attention. — T Clark
I’d like to put forth the hypothesis that I don’t need no stinking Kant, or Hegel, or Schopenhauer, or Kneechee, or any of those guys. I have expressed my skepticism about western philosophy many times before on the forum. Rather than being defensive about it, I have decided to raise laziness to the level of sanctified philosophical principle. Stop reading, arguing, writing, building little intellectual kingdoms out of the sand of your benighted psyches. Just pay attention. To the world and to yourself — T Clark
That's my problem with all this feel-good inclusivity of "staring at walls is philosophy". What, exactly is philosophical about it? Where's the specificity? What makes this anything more than an attempt to turn a personal failing into a dignified quote-unqoute principled "philosophical" stance? — StreetlightX
are you sure that you are not looking through the lens of their eyes when you look upon the world? — Leghorn
I don't know if you use the word "intelectual" in general or from a philosophical view. Because it is too general and it includes writers, artists, etc., as well as just people with a highly developed intellect. — Alkis Piskas
Interesting! Is this why most of the people in here --from what I have undestood in discussing with them-- are scientifically oriented? No wonder that all of them are physicalists! — Alkis Piskas
Some of these are of some interest. But soon it loses the immediacy connected with the human condition and will keep people who might otherwise be interested very far away from topics most people should find interesting, because they are intrinsically interesting. — Manuel
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