"When it comes to us as individuals", sometimes we understand a situation correctly; sometimes we're mistaken; sometimes we have no idea what's going on. Sometimes our predictions are correct; other times they are incorrect; other times we may not be in position to make any prediction at all. — Cabbage Farmer

I agree

In what regard are these cases different? And what prevents them from being analyzed the way I've suggested? — Cabbage Farmer

What I was trying to explain is that once someone makes a decision that results in their death they are no longer capable of analyzing anything. Of course I know that this is obvious but I think that it’s worth mentioning.

We know on the basis of experience that when an action results in fatalities, living organisms become corpses; and we know what happens to corpses. — Cabbage Farmer

I wish I understood why you emphasize experience so heavily. Are you some sort of empiricist? I was trying to avoid epistemology. I don’t care where knowledge comes from. What I’m interested in is a strategy for mistake reduction.

The Aztecs for example tried to placate the gods with sacrifices to ensure a successful harvest but these days those kinds of practices are seen as barbaric by many. — Average

Necessity, much like ignorance, is not a constant but a circumstantial.. circumstance. The four year old child may be unaware of the next logical step in a basic mathematical equation just as the forty year old professor may be unaware of the next logical step in a complex equation that describes complex nuclear fission.

We all want things. We act based on what we deem is the most efficient way to get them. For example, you probably placate your hunger and various cravings with unhealthy food and other substances, as do I. I forget my point, though as you hold this discussion to be fruitful or at least of some purpose no matter how vague or minute, so do I with this post.

I forget my point, though as you hold this discussion to be fruitful or at least of some purpose no matter how vague or minute, so do I with this post. — Outlander

Sometimes I forget my point too so no worries. Thank you for endorsing this discussion, It really means a lot to me.

Thank you for endorsing this discussion, It really means a lot to me. — Average

Why do I feel a vague, possibly powerful, insidious sense of sarcasm lodged ever so craftily in these alleged sincere words. Perhaps my own frailties or manifested malfeasances reflected back at me are what I see. I'd almost hope so. Almost.

Perhaps my own frailties or manifested malfeasances reflected back at me are what I see. I'd almost hope so. Almost. — Outlander

I think you’re right to be wary when it comes to sincerity. Even if you seem to be suffering from some form of paranoia. Other people are rarely what they appear to be. I myself am extremely skeptical and suspicious when it comes to other people and their dubious benevolence.

Beforehand we can only guess. Àfterwards we know.

Be true to yourself and let the cards fall where they may. I'm in just such a situation now. It's exhilarating. — frank

I am just getting on the path again Frank and right now "exhilarating" is not the word I would use. :fear:

Sometimes I forget my point too so no worries. Thank you for endorsing this discussion, It really means a lot to me. — Average

Hi Average!
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
We are excited you are here.
Enjoy your stay~
Tiff :flower:

Beforehand we can only guess. Àfterwards we know. — GraveItty

Would you mind telling me how you arrived at this conclusion?

I am just getting on the path again Frank and right now "exhilarating" is not the word I would use. :fear: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Change is stressful. It let's you know you're alive, though.

Personal experience. It's not a general rule though in many cases one can only tell after the choice if the choice had made sense. I know it makes perfect sense to choose a lemon ice cream because I know I like it. But The knowledge of unknown things is a lot bigger. There are thousands of ice cream tastes, and I know only a limited scala of tastes, so, I can choose one of the others, unknown ones, and only afterwards, I can say if my choice made sense. If I liked it. You could formalize this, abstract it in some system, but examples furnish the best way to inform.

It's not a general rule though in many cases one can only tell after the choice if the choice had made sense. — GraveItty

I myself harbor a different opinion. I believe that it is important to know the truth before we decide to act. In fact it doesn’t do you much good to learn the truth too late. An example of someone who embarked on a military expedition, like Marcus Licinius Crassus when he tried to invade Parthia only to find out that it was fated to end in disaster, might illustrate my point.

I myself harbor a different opinion. I believe that it is important to know the truth before we decide to act. — Average

Of course. Knowing the truth about a lemon icecream helps in decision making when it comes to choose a taste.

Of course. — GraveItty

Since we both agree that knowing the truth is important whenever we decide to do something perhaps it might be a good idea to discuss how that knowledge is acquired. I’m of the opinion that a simple ratio is enough to find out if our methods work well enough to be worth our time and energy.

Choice isn't a technical phenomenon, it's a random phenomenon.

We don't go through a phase where were thinking whilst we're about to do something we have chose.

Choice isn't a technical phenomenon, it's a random phenomenon. — Varde

I’m not sure I completely understand your position but if I’m misconstruing your conclusion I hope you’ll let me know. I agree that we often don’t think before we act but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t make an effort to do just that. Personally I think that it makes sense to do the calculus before you end up wasting valuable resources.

Since we both agree that knowing the truth is important whenever we decide to do something perhaps it might be a good idea to discuss how that knowledge is acquired. I’m of the opinion that a simple ratio is enough to find out if our methods work well enough to be worth our time and energy.
4m — Average

Sure! Good idea. Though we must firstly choose a base system of knowledge. Or you prefer a formalization? Applicable to all bases, be it the scientific one or the one of the Hopi? Examples do the trick too. As many examples as possible can do the trick too and can show the different choices people make, on the different bases of knowledge.

Choice isn't a technical phenomenon, it's a random phenomenon. — Varde

It can be, though that's pretty problematic. Most choices are non-random. It's not universal though. In the sense that it applies to all people.

Sure! Good idea. Though we must firstly choose a base system of knowledge. — GraveItty

I’m not exactly sure I know what you’re referring to when you mention a base system of knowledge. Would you mind explaining the concept to me? I would be grateful.

I’m not exactly sure I know what you’re referring to when you mention a base system of knowledge. Would you mind explaining the concept to me? I would be grateful.
/quote]

It's pretty simple. Different people have different views of reality and a knowledge in accordance with it. I see a physical universe filled with material stuff, and a knowledge of it. Others see a universe filled with God's, ghosts and ethereal entities. You can base your decisions on both. Of course there are more then two realities as humanity is not divided up in two. Nevertheless all people can have choice making in common. — Average

It's pretty simple. Different people have different views of reality and a knowledge in accordance with it. — Average

Would you agree that there are incorrect conclusions? Or do you believe that everybody is right about everything? I only ask because if you would classify incorrect conclusions as knowledge that category becomes worthless in my opinion.

Would you agree that there are incorrect conclusions? — Average

Firstly, I only now see your response. Something went wrong. Im not sure why your name is under my comment. Ah, I see why! I made a mistake! No wonder I waited in vain for your reply. Sorry. I draw the wrong conclusion that it was a computer error. Already one wrong conclusion!

I don't say that everybody is right. That everybody is right and everybody jumps to the right conclusions. You already have one example! God forbid! Right and wrong conclusions can be drawn in every system of reality, be it within the framework of a vision in which the universe was created 6000 years ago within one of a universe filled with God's, or in the realm of an elementary particles view. Every system has its own ways and forms of knowledge and I'm not sure if a general abstract But I assume you mean the kind of conclusions I just made?

Every system has its own ways and forms of knowledge — GraveItty

Would you mind defining knowledge? That way we both know what we are referring to when we discuss it.

Would you mind defining knowledge? That way we both know what we are referring to when we discuss it. — Average

Knowledge is knowing. Be it how elementary charged (which by definition they must be) particles behave, how the Greek gods behave (in the Greek view on reality), or how to perform a dance. Knowledge cannot be defined formally, although Knowledge of formal systems, of which math is the ultimate example, can be very useful, as in physics. Knowledge can be best defined in practice, or by giving lists. You like the formal approach?

Yeah. You can't guarantee you won't do something extremely stupid.

I'd define knowledge as "mental awareness of objective truth".

Knowledge is knowing. — GraveItty

Is there a difference between knowing and believing?

You like the formal approach? — GraveItty

I’m not sure that I understand the “formal approach”