being the only form of government that works in those regions and can assure stability. — Agustino
The Assad regime is destroyed - and replaced with what?? — Agustino
An ethical action would demand a "good outcome". — Bitter Crank
An ethical outcome wasn't defined. — Bitter Crank
We know no such thing, as we so vividly demonstrated in Iraq and Afghanistan. We smashed Humpty Dumpty and we couldn't put it back together again. — Bitter Crank
Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, and now Iraq — Thorongil
Massive humanitarian aid to neighbouring countries, a welcome to refugees and the services of skilful diplomats to bring warring factions to the table - thats what this mysterious 'we' could do. — mcdoodle
Your judgments are far too premature. None of these states have been in existence for longer than a few decades at most. Western democracies are well over 200 years old, and were never perfect then as now, though they have made vast improvements, such as abolishing the slave trade. — Thorongil
Again - I fail to see on what your assumption that all regions of the world can be governed reliably through democratic means rests on, except on the fact that the West is governed so. — Agustino
What prevents some of them from doing so at this moment in time are the artificial and contingent factors of culture and religion. — Thorongil
This is factually wrong, which is all I'll say here. I come from one of those countries - the collapse of the Soviet Bloc was imminent and predictable - if not from the outside, then certainly from the inside.No ordinary person expected in 1788 that this would happen just a year later, just as very few people in 1988 living in the Soviet Bloc expected or predicted the utter collapse of Soviet rule over the next few years. — Thorongil
Here in Finland with 5,4 million people, we have had about 10 000 refugees coming here. And that's a small number... by European standards. Hence the refugee crisis is real... and actually a part of the Assad strategy in the war.In Canada, we're bringing in the refugees, 25,000 by the end of February. — photographer
Actually my country is doing this also. But what's the end game? Even if the total-disaster Maliki is out, still the Iranian controlled Shiite militias are carrying out their version of ethnic cleansing in Sunni areas in Iraq. The problem is that there isn't any reasonable outcome for Sunni's in Iraq. And are Kurds getting their own country? Of course not.We're also supporting the Kurdish militias in Iraq who - as I understand it - are driving ISIL out of territory that is nominally under Kurdish control. — photographer
Likely Hillary will drop the nonsensical idea when she is the President. And actually even more shameful is that Saudi-Arabia isn't taking any either. The Saudi's apparently fear that the Syrians would create problems in their dictatorship.I have to chuckle at Hillary's idea of a no-fly zone; is she ready for a confrontation with the Russians? The U.S. refusal to take refugees is shameful. — photographer
None of these states have been in existence for longer than a few decades at most. Western democracies are well over 200 years old, and were never perfect then as now, though they have made vast improvements, such as abolishing the slave trade. — Thorongil
Yes. But there is also another reason why they would act in shock and surprise - namely that if they didn't, they would be killed. This is an old communist test - tell you some misinformation to see how you react to it - and if you react to it in a way that is against party line ... get rid of you.That question is irrelevant. I'm speaking about what public perceptions were about whether it would or would not collapse soon and whether it could be predicted when it would do so. I'm saying that if you pulled aside the average Russian in the mid 1980s and told them that in just a couple years the Soviet Union will have been utterly liquidated,, chances are decent to good that he or she would respond with shock and surprise. Obviously, some closer to the internal workings of power might have realized it sooner, but I'm again talking about the masses here, who as you said in another thread, are hopefully naive and aloof all the time. — Thorongil
Support by whom? And where then you draw the lines of the Rojava? To what they are now? If I'm correct, not the PYD and the KNC are in control of Rojava and it does have very interesting features (like communality and libertarian socialism), but What's the role of the PKK or the PUK? If Rojava, what about the autonomous areas in Iraq? Kurds have had their own civil wars.The only ethical solution here would be full support for the Rojavas and no support for anyone else. At the end, have the Rojava leadership assume regional leadership position, and support them in peace and stability efforts. Will it happen? Not a chance in hell. But it's definitely the only ethical solution here. — discoii
Or to say it otherwise, that the power laid in the hands of minorities in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq was the direct reason that these countries were politically weak and unstable, had totalitarian regimes (in Syria and Iraq) to prop the regime and have failed economically, all have now ended up with very bloody civil wars. That the power ended up with the minorities is a direct consequence of colonialism.This was a key factor behind the rise of the militarist regimes that had come to dominate many Arab countries from the 1950s until the 2011 Arab uprisings. — Bitter Crank
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