The only appropriate patriotic attitude under capitalism is extreme and unabiding shame. — StreetlightX

To what end?

To capitalism's end.

But shame fuels consumerism, thus fueling capitalism.

Ah yes I also remember the bit in armchair fabricated psychology 101 where every response to shame is exactly the same and it is consumerism yes mhmm.

Mkay. Another idea: In some (older) cultures, the socially expected response to shame is humility, and with it, minimalism.

Can you sketch out your idea of how a person under capitalism can feel shame?

Can you sketch out your idea of how a person under capitalism can feel shame? — baker

Do... do you need someone to teach you how to emote?

When did you land on Earth and can you tell me about your galaxy and what it's like over there?

Bah. Emoting is not a given, it's culturally conditioned. Yes, we learn how to feel about something, we can be taught how to feel about something. Advertisers know this well.

Yes, we learn how to feel about something, — baker

Excellent. Now go read about how everything you love about your country is probably the fruit of genocide or colonialism or continuing exploitation which remains unaddressed.

I don't love "my" country, and "my" country was an underling to monarchies for centuries, and, if anything, on the receiving end of genocide or colonialism or continuing exploitation which remains unaddressed.

Although I do love the forests and the mountains and the rivers and the lakes here in this country.

Have you ever been to Gobekli Tepe?

I don't love "my" country — baker

Cool.

Now tell me: How would you go about teaching [insert name of American reality tv celebrity] how to feel shame?

No. Why do you ask?

teaching [insert name of American reality tv celebrity] — baker

Oh God no American celebrities are beyond the pale.

Actually probably most Americans in general tbh.

No. Why do you ask? — baker

Just wondering. It's the oldest known case of monument building. It might be the oldest temple. You should go.

Ouch. It looks like those who spread the disinfo about Russia, duping millions of true believers, are finally getting pinched.

NYT - Authorities Arrest Analyst Who Contributed to Steele Dossier

I'd rather not see the guy arrested, but it's at least a good thrust to the legacy media and their devotees, who it turns out were the useful idiots of grifters and party propagandists. This scandal was spread worldwide, and though its dismantling will sound as a whimper in comparison to the fevered reporting of the big lie, the truth is nonetheless prevailing in the end.

Ouch! It looks like one of Trump's stooges stepped on her dick:

Another not charged with insurrection? That must sting a bit, given the narrative.

Another not charged with insurrection? That must sting a bit, given the narrative. — NOS4A2

Doesn't sting a bit. I'm all about the rule of law. As a former prosecutor, I know it's not all about what you can prove. Sometimes it's about picking your battles.

Say, NOS, when the DOJ does something you don't like, are you going to pat them on the back like you did with the analyst? :rofl:

A former prosecutor, a former marine, a former cop… wow, you’ve done it all.

Nah, the US Justice system is utterly corrupt. Anyone who lies to the DOJ gets a pat on the back, in my book.

A former prosecutor, a former marine, a former cop… wow, you’ve done it all. — NOS4A2

That's only 3 out of 34. :rofl:

Nah, the US Justice system is utterly corrupt. Anyone who lies to the DOJ gets a pat on the back, in my book. — NOS4A2

You do know that is a felony, right? Where were you on January 6th? :razz: Just kidding, I know you don't have it in you. But yeah, with dummies like Trump stacking the judicial deck, I see your point.

All this talk about misinformation, election meddling, and Kremlin troll farms around the 2016 election was so much humbug. Meanwhile, attorney Michael Sussman, another Clinton crony indicted for lying, was submitting false allegations of secret communication channels between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin.

The FBI had, in fact, initiated an investigation of these allegations in response to a
meeting that MICHAEL A. SUSSMANN, the defendant herein- a lawyer at a major international law firm ("Law Firm-I") - requested and held with the FBI General Counsel on or about September 19, 2016 at FBI Headquarters in the District of Columbia. SUSSMANN provided to the FBI General Counsel three "white papers" along with data files allegedly containing evidence supporting the existence ofthis purported secret communications channel.

During the meeting, SUSSMANN lied about the capacity m which he was providing the allegations to the FBI. Specifically, SUSSMANN stated falsely that he was not doing his work on the aforementioned allegations "for any client," which led the FBI General Counsel to understand that SUSSMANN was acting as a good citizen merely passing along information, not as a paid advocate or political operative. In fact, and as alleged in further detail below, this statement was intentionally false and misleading because, in assembling and conveying these allegations, SUSSMANN acted on behalf of specific clients, namely, (i) a U.S. technology industry executive ("Tech Executive-I") at a U.S. Internet company ("Internet Company-I"), and (ii) the Hillary Clinton Presidential Campaign (the "Clinton Campaign").

https://www.justice.gov/sco/press-release/file/1433511/download

People worldwide had to bear 4 years of these lies and propaganda. The damage is already done.

People worldwide had to bear 4 years of these lies and propaganda. The damage is already done. — NOS4A2

Like Benghazi? :rofl: Where were you in Trump's Nigeria? :roll: See, whataboutism goes on forever. Face it, you are a political tool for Trump. He's your leader.

Did you fall for all this stuff?

Did you fall for all this stuff? — NOS4A2

No. Honestly I didn't even read whatever it was you put up. Like Covid: For me, it's not about the science; it's become all about the politics. Likewise the rule of law: I find your concern about "fact" to be disingenuous. You don't care about this or that law or science or fact. It's all about "owning the libs." LOL!

Problem is, you can't stand it when the cons get owned. So I will take being painted with a Biden/liberal/Democrat/socialist/inclusive American brush. I know that I am on the side of good, relative to the evil of white supremacy, fascism, nationalism and the lie of "individualism" that is really just more Republican conservative BS. :roll:

In short, I am on the side of good. You are on the side of evil.

(I really don't believe in either, but sometimes you play the hand you've been dealt, and you play by the rules that your opposition likes to play by.)

Now tell me: How would you go about teaching [insert name of American reality tv celebrity] how to feel shame? — baker

I know it wasn't directed at me, but it's an interesting question. If you want to make someone feel shame, you need to remove them from whatever context gives them validation and tether obtaining validation to some external source (system, person) which has tangible power over them. If they (believe they) can satisfy their needs outside of the system, they can't be educated into shame. Make them feel like they aren't who they think they are, or make them feel like they aren't who they believe they should be.

To amplify it, you also need to make it so that they can't 'walk away' from the experience or contextualise the experience in a manner which is egosyntonic - it has to be inescapable and destructive to their current sense of self. No tears on camera for money. Teach them that those tears are theirs and it's dangerous if people even see them. Shame is something that must be hidden.

You also need to tie it to a validation loop, so that the only way that they get any validation is doing something contrary to who they are comfortable being. Shame is something that drives you to mutilate your sense of self further, you'll contort yourself away from it.

If they can't imagine what it's like to be in that position - they have deeper problems than an inability to feel shame. They'd need to be taught to empathise again first. And for that, nothing beats having a loved one suffer + caretaking responsibility for them in a manner that conflicts with your life priorities!

Make them suffer until they're capable of imagining what it's like. Then make them acknowledge their part in it. I would be surprised if shame lead inexorably to consumption or other escapisms - can lead to action or wallowing too. Or stasis, it need not be acted upon relevantly if it's deflected or otherwise neutralised (sublimated into lifestyle choices or whatever).

(PS: If any would be dictator is reading this, please consider me for the position of reeducation camp systems architect.)

If any would be dictator is reading this, please consider me for the position of reeducation camp systems architect. — fdrake

Will do. :smile:

Late Halloween entertainment

The Cult of Fools – “Trump Empire in Financial Trouble” – Oct 31, 2021

A federal judge has rejected former President Donald Trump’s effort to block Jan. 6 investigators from accessing White House records related to his attempt to overturn the 2020 election, determining that he has no authority to overrule President Joe Biden’s decision to waive executive privilege and release the materials to Congress. ...

The decision is a crucial victory for the Jan. 6 committee in the House, albeit one that may ring hollow if an appeals court — or, potentially, the U.S. Supreme Court — steps in to slow the process down.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/11/09/trump-executive-privilege-court-ruling-kings-520512