They’re not doing nearly enough, — Xtrix

And it doesn't help if they have someone undermining their efforts by trashing them, while giving the other side a pass.

It's very cute that, despite having no substantial reply to anything I said, you keep falling back on this idea that I've said that both parties are 'the same'. Which I haven't said, not once. Except there is a big difference between them - the democrats exist to kill left energy. Something Republican's can't do.

https://xlauren-mx.medium.com/after-what-happened-in-buffalo-i-dont-want-to-hear-vote-blue-no-matter-who-again-765745b21eb1

So getting back on topic:

Pelosi is pushing for a vote on the “bipartisan” bill tonight. Both bills were supposed to be voted on together, with the BBB first, which is already a cave by the CPC. The “moderates” are now saying they don’t want to do that until the CBO gives more information about the BBB’s cost. :lol:

So let’s see if the progressives vote for this or not. I’m betting they will, completing the cave.

Yup. CPC should tank both bills and the debt increase next month. Tell both Joes: "Two can play at this game. Bye Biden."

Burn it all down. D's had their chance to tank the filibuster and get the whole enchilada. But they decided to make Mitch McConnel and Joe Manchin a sandwich. Good little wives, hoping their husband will change.

Also yeah let's just plug our ears and la-la-la the fact that Biden has approved more oil and gas leases than Trump did, pace-wise, while saying with a perfectly straight face that "the democrats don't do enough". It would be a joke if it wasn't so pathetic.

you keep falling back on this idea that I've said that bith parties are 'the same'. Which I haven't said, not once. — StreetlightX

Right— you’ve said the democrats are worse, which is also very cute.

Voting is a minor decision. Vote against climate deniers and move on. Simple.

Vote against climate deniers and move on. — Xtrix

Ok. So not the democrats then? Got it.

Also yeah let's just plug our ears and la-la-la the fact that Biden has approved more oil and gas leases than Trump did, pace-wise, — StreetlightX

Also that he is pushing OPEC to increase oil production while lecturing the world about emissions reductions. Which is a shock to no one.

Which is a shock to no one. — Xtrix

You say this like it's a defense. Which, of course, it is. Shill.

Ok. So not the democrats then? Got it. — StreetlightX

The democrats aren’t deniers, because their main financiers are not big oil, but Wall Street. But they don’t care about the environment; sometimes their voters do. So they drag their feet on any action, predictably. All this has been very well documented and is very well known.

You say this like it's a defense. — StreetlightX

A defense of what?

So they drag their feet on any action, predictably. — Xtrix

They don't 'drag their feet'. They actively make things worse. This idea of a 'reluctant'/'feet dragging' dem party as opposed to an outright malicious one needs to die.

If you really understood that, then why are you up in arms about Republicans? Like they're the problem?
— frank

Because they are the problem. Them and Manchin and Sinema. — James Riley

I really don't think so. We have very different perspectives on the whole thing. So yes, we talk past one another.

If not democrats, then republicans. One of these parties is worse on climate change. So vote that way. But despite fantasies, the US is a two-party system, so that’s the choice.

I think to say Democrats are worse— or less responsive to demands of their voters, is just being blinded by hatred and frustration.

or less responsive to demands of their voters — Xtrix

Democarts are not just "less responsive to their voters" - they actively go out of their way to make sure their voters are irrelevant: https://xlauren-mx.medium.com/after-what-happened-in-buffalo-i-dont-want-to-hear-vote-blue-no-matter-who-again-765745b21eb1

The democrats are 'responsive' alright - they do the exact opposite and subvert the will of voters.

We have very different perspectives on the whole thing. — frank

:up: We have very different perspectives on some fundamental issues. I knew that when you refuse to distinguish between your patients. It's like giving an alcoholic a liver or a smoker some lungs because they signed up first. Whatever. Different perspectives indeed.

They don't 'drag their feet'. They actively make things worse — StreetlightX

Some of them. Not Bernie. Not Markey. Not Warren. Not on this issue, anyway.

Every member of the Republican Party wants to not only do “active harm,” but accelerate it to the extreme— because they’re owned by fossil fuel interests.

We have two parties, so that’s the choice.

Some of them. Not Bernie. Not Markey. Not Warren. Not on this issue, anyway. — Xtrix

Distinctions without a difference at level of results. This is democratic apologetics, sold to you by the democratic party and reproduced by you and the likes of you verbatim.

Democarts are not just "less responsive to their voters" - they actively go out of their way to make sure their voters are irrelevant — StreetlightX

So in your view they’re worse than Republicans on climate change. So I assume you would vote Republican— or help them get elected by not voting at all.

Ask environmentalists about the response they get from Republicans.

Some of them. Not Bernie. Not Markey. Not Warren. Not on this issue, anyway.
— Xtrix

Distinctions without a difference at level of results. — StreetlightX

Sorry, but Bernie getting no results vs. “actively making things worse“ is indeed a clear distinction.

So in your view they’re worse than Republicans on climate change — Xtrix

Idk what's worse. A party that is transparently shit on climate change, or a party that is semi-transparently shit on climate change, pretends not to be, and then helps secure victories for the party that is transparently shit on climate change, while staving off any actual change from the left on behalf of both?

Then you’re simply not paying attention. Ask any environmentalist if they’d prefer communicating with Bernie or James Inhofe about climate change.

'Not paying attention' - says the bloke who will literally ignore deliberate democratic "failure" and then pretend like 'being listened to' means anything at all, despite it quite clearly, by any and all evidence, being less than worthless.

ignore deliberate democratic "failure" — StreetlightX

If you’re referring to drilling on public lands, I already acknowledged that— I also added to the list.

What I was demonstrating before about the interior department and the moratorium or national monuments (which you ignored) isn’t that it was wonderful, but that the Republicans wouldn’t have done either, and in fact transparently moved in the opposite direction.

acknowledged — Xtrix

Your 'acknowledgment' - like democratic "acknowledgements" of BLM - are equally meaningless. You may as well be on here with Earth equivalent of a kente scarf.

Let’s do a thought experiment. Both parties will do active harm to the environment. Take that as a given. In this context, what’s the strategy for those who actually care about climate change? Should they not bother voting? Does it truly not matter who’s in office? Will pressure do nothing either way? Is “pushing” either party towards action completely useless?

If this is the message, it’s pure nihilism. I’ve offered plenty of opportunities to present an alternative plan. All that’s been offered is “we need to break out of thinking democrats are better” or something to that effect. In other words: nothing whatever.

"I don't know what politics means outside of party politics, therefore, nothing can be done. This is definitely not a reflection on me. Nihilism waaa".

We have very different perspectives on some fundamental issues. I knew that when you refuse to distinguish between your patients. — James Riley

Ooh. I'm gonna have to drop you off my radar.

.

Plenty can be done— party politics (and voting) is minor: vote against the leaders that make it harder to enact change. The rest is the hard work that’s done all the time— and which you continually ignore in favor of…criticizing party politics.

Ooh. I'm gonna have to drop you off my radar. — frank

:up: Apparently you can draw some distinctions. :razz:

"Plenty can be done... but if you don't vote for my preferred flavour of planet destroyers then you're a nihilist because nothing can be done waaaaa".