You seem to think suffering = torture? Would that be accurate? You even list capital punishment as “torture”. In what way? — DingoJones
No, that's mostly just 'mercans. The civilised world did away with that shit years ago. — Banno
What kind of inflicted pain is humane? — DingoJones
do you think torture as punishment would be unethical — DingoJones
Can you expand on torture as a public deterrent? — DingoJones
Definitely yes, torture for the sole purpose of punishment is not only unethical but also uncivilized. — SpaceDweller
Torture in public, primary goal is to discourage committed crime or evil, punishment comes as "collateral" and is secondary. — SpaceDweller
As punishment, unethical. As a deterrent, ethical.
They seem to have the same ethical standing to me, how have you made this distinction? — DingoJones
Punishment is collateral and “secondary”…collateral of what, and secondary to what? — DingoJones
Not really, consider a person who attempts to pollute a water so that whole society would face serious issues for survival, and this attempt becomes publicly known. (but not committed)
Would you punish such a person in private (punishment) or in public (deterrent)?
What's the purpose of private torture if there is a whole host of potential people who might think doing such evil is actually a good idea? — SpaceDweller
Primary purpose of punishment in public is deterrence not punishment, for reasons in example above.
Put it another way, we face COVID pandemic, now somehow a person is found guilty who is responsible for this, such that it was his will to infect the whole world.
Would your just punishment be death penalty, torture in public or torture in private? — SpaceDweller
As punishment, unethical. As a deterrent, ethical.
They seem to have the same ethical standing to me, how have you made this distinction? — DingoJones
Sorry I wasnt clear. I was stating your stance not offering my own when I said “as punishment, ethical, as deterrent unethical.”. What I meant was I myself do not see a difference between the ethical standing of either is f those. — DingoJones
Your question seems to be oriented toward physical torture, but there is also psychological torture.
Both have same effect but different outcome. — SpaceDweller
I think it's hard to prove, and even harder to prevent.so in my opinion this should be prevented however possible — Enrique
It's a question of scale. — Banno
You put ethical higher meaning than practical, while this sounds ethical and in most of the cases valid, there are cases where an issue isn't only a matter of ethical or not. — SpaceDweller
If you're a judge that is supposed to be just then in such extreme situations it's not only about you and defendant, you also need to care of yourself because there may be millions if not billions of those seeking justice :wink:
If that's sounds unethical to you then don't judge. — SpaceDweller
No, I didnt mean to imply ethical above practical. Indeed, my view is that ethics are merely one of many priorities people have. When these priorities are in conflict, sometimes morality ethics lose out. — DingoJones
I would describe that as putting a higher degree of priority on social stability than ethics. — DingoJones
Removing me from my loved ones, eliminating my ability to contribute anything to the world, dictating my every move, housing me with those who wish me harm, is that not the worst torture imaginable? Is that more humane than 20 lashes? — Hanover
Thats the main problem I have with many systems of ethics, they assume morality as the highest priority when its much more common for ethics to be 3-4th on the list of priorities for people. — DingoJones
What’s the Difference Between Morality and Ethics?Many people think of morality as something that’s personal and normative, whereas ethics is the standards of “good and bad” distinguished by a certain community or social setting. For example, your local community may think adultery is immoral, and you personally may agree with that. However, the distinction can be useful if your local community has no strong feelings about adultery, but you consider adultery immoral on a personal level. By these definitions of the terms, your morality would contradict the ethics of your community.
For example, many people put family before ethics or sadly most people put money above ethics and compromising ethics for money is so common they scarcely recognize their behaviour as unethical. (Some clever folks even call it “business ethics” to create the illusion that they still operate ethically.) — DingoJones
I would describe that as putting a higher degree of priority on social stability than ethics. This is what judges and lawyers are doing all the time, and why people often refer to lawyers as scum….they arent acting ethically first. They are acting in the interests of a system first — DingoJones
Interesting question.Why this disconnect between the philosophy and practices of torture? Does torture reveal an essential flaw in philosophizing, its hypocrisy, or is philosophical thinking simply incapable of altering the human propensity for accepting violation by pain no matter what its reasoning consists in? — Enrique
Couldn’t, or shouldn’t, things like “social stability” just be incorporated into a person’s ethical theory? I feel like any form of consequentialism would necessarily have to consider things like social stability and the impact whatever moral choice has on it. — Pinprick
Why this disconnect between the philosophy and practices of torture? Does torture reveal an essential flaw in philosophizing, its hypocrisy, or is philosophical thinking simply incapable of altering the human propensity for accepting violation by pain no matter what its reasoning consists in? — Enrique
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