And "infinite" meaning what, exactly? — tim wood
this proves that reality MUST NECESSARILY be infinite — Miller
It wouldn't have an outside, if it was finite. The universe is all of it, whether finite or infinite. — Razorback kitten
Keeps going forever. Which makes alot more sense than its alternative: nothingness.
It's not about having the perfect answer, it's about having the best answer. — Miller
And how do we explain the Olber's paradox if it really is infinite? — Echoes
Assuming our universe is finite, what lies beyond it's edge? Where is the universe located in the first place? What lies above and below the universe?
Even if we assume we're in a multiverse, what lies outside the multiverse? — Echoes
Assuming our universe is finite, what lies beyond it's edge? Where is the universe located in the first place? — Echoes
And so on. In absence of a relation to something else, you can't say to be anywhere. — Manuel
And maybe the conversational emphasis is the right one. What does it mean to be the sort of thing that has a physical location? That’s a defining characteristic of us, but what does it mean to have a location? Can my having a location only be described in terms of the location of other things or beings that have a location? That still doesn’t say what it is for anything — those things, me, us — to have a location. The simplest way to block even thinking you can answer my location question by talking about the location of other things, is to ask “Where is everything?”
And that’s a very good question. Not ‘where am I in relation to (something else)’, but what is ‘being somewhere’? — Srap Tasmaner
For if I am completely in myself, I don't see how I could recognize other things at all. I would just be a passive creature, taking in whatever sense data the world happens to throw at me. — Manuel
(1) Where is everything?
(1a*) Where is everywhere? — Srap Tasmaner
The universe, too, is wherever it is, and since we’re in it, that’s where we are. Or, maybe better, the universe is wherever we are. — Srap Tasmaner
‘being somewhere’ is only ‘being somewhere (relative to something else)’? That is not clear to me at all — Srap Tasmaner
I know that I must be somewhere because I am spatial, and insofar as I am at all, I am located. What is that sense of being located, that’s what I want to get it, and what I think “Where is the universe?” can force you to confront. I don’t think you get to say that I know I must be located only in the sense of being located relative to other things, because we cannot claim already to understand what it means for those things to be located somewhere. — Srap Tasmaner
And obviously we can’t say where the universe is in relation to anything else, but we can still say that it’s right here, or that it’s ‘all around us’. — Srap Tasmaner
The concept "universe" is relative to me, the creature asking the question.
I may be part of the universe, but I can scrutinize it in a way that it seems unable to do, absent someone asking a question. — Manuel
And how do we explain the Olber's paradox if it really is infinite? — Echoes
The second option, taking ourselves as independent and thinking of location relative to us, seems to have some promise. I was confused at first that you and Miller seemed almost immediately to start talking about solipsism, but it makes sense if that’s how you see starting from us.
I think I didn’t see solipsism here because I’m not allowing myself to assume that location is relational, or at least not relational in a way that I already understand. — Srap Tasmaner
In essence I’ve been arguing that the title of the thread, “Where are we?”, is exactly the way into answering “Where is the universe?” by turning it into “Where is here?” first of all, and thinking about location (what is ‘here’?) this way first, but knowing that we’ll need to end up with a sense of location that also works for ‘there’ and ‘that stuff’ too. (Does it need to be the same sense? Unclear.) — Srap Tasmaner
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.