If there are others, they need to stand up and push back. — James Riley

I think Mitt Romney is another of those rare Republicans.

Again, I'm hoping that local politicians here don't mimic the ways of US politicians. The Media surely tries to...

I can't imagine being a Holocaust survivor listening to all these equations. :roll: — James Riley

They tend to be old and rare these days. When you make an international investment here, they don't ask anymore if you have participated in the holocaust or not anymore (something obviously that American legislators had successfully pushed forward earlier in Europe).

I think Mitt Romney is another of those rare Republicans. — ssu

I think a man of violence is the type they need. Bullies tend to stand down when called out. You'd think that former SEAL with the eye patch would stand up, but maybe he's actually a true believer. Can't believe he'd follow a coward like Trump, but it's not my party. They made their bed so burn 'em all down as far as I'm concerned.

Censure has zero effect beyond political finger-wagging, anyways. So, along with the press and woke social media CEOs, congress will make a big show of it, but that's about the end of it. — NOS4A2

They also took away two of his more important committee memberships. That's not "zero effect."

That’s the effect of their blind, censorial rage. Censure requires no compulsory action.

That’s the effect of their blind, censorial rage. Censure requires no compulsory action. — NOS4A2

You wrote:

Censure has zero effect beyond political finger-wagging, anyways. So, along with the press and woke social media CEOs, congress will make a big show of it, but that's about the end of it. — NOS4A2

I just pointed out that Gosar's punishment, justified or not, is more than just a "big show." It has a substantive impact on his role and effectiveness in Congress.

Can't believe he'd follow a coward like Trump, but it's not my party. — James Riley

Dan Crenshaw? He has criticized Trump's actions on Jan 6th and basically for the ex-soldier Trump "isn't the Devil, but isn't Jesus either". I think that is actually a very representative attitude of how Republicans really think of Trump, when you toned down the hype.

Never underestimate the tribalism of US politics (and how that tribalism is instigated and perpetuated by both sides). The vast majority of Americans put their party before the consistency of their values, just as the politically oriented media shows them. And they just love the politicians who make the other side fuming in anger and NEVER, ever agree that the other side would have a point. That would be like giving your little finger to the devil. And naturally Trump makes democrats and other pinko-liberals like those in Hollywood absolutely crazy. For many that is the real thing they like in Trump.

I learned the tribalism actually when Obama came into power. During the Bush years, the democrats and left-leaning media were in my view totally correctly pointing out the illegalities of the War on Terror. But when Obama came into power and basically continued the same policies, they all fell silent. Totally silent. Suddenly such investigative reporters like Seymour Hersh didn't continue reporting on the War on Terror. He uhh...had some other book to write. That Obama permitted the killing in a drone strike a 16 year old American citizen who hadn't done anything else than had been borne to his father (who had radicalized only after being tortured in an Egyptian prison, and then himself been killed by a drone strike), was hardly reported. Did not stir up a debate on how even American nationals ought to be treated. And all that time Afghanistan was getting worse and worse. Many become suddenly defenders of their side when in power and "understand" things that if it was the other party in power, would be totally against.

That would be like giving your little finger to the devil. And naturally Trump makes democrats and other pinko-liberals like those in Hollywood absolutely crazy. For many that is the real thing they like in Trump. — ssu

Liz Cheney gave her finger to the devil. As Trump and those who like him, yes. As one wag said some time ago: "The reason people like Trump is because he pretends to hate the same people they really hate."

Yep. He does say what a lot of people think. And I won't lie to you and say I did not thoroughly enjoy Trump destroying the other Republican candidates back in 2016 in the primaries, I loved it.

But then he won. And that became a problem. Man, to think people would want boring politicians back sure is something!

And I won't lie to you and say I did not thoroughly enjoy Trump destroying the other Republican candidates back in 2016 in the primaries, I loved it. — Manuel

I liked when he pushed back against smarmy "journalists" playing "gotcha." But once the table manners return, it's time to settle down and act like adults. For Trump, being a jerk was not a tactic, but an actual personality/character trait.

But once the table manners return, it's time to settle down and act like adults. For Trump, being a jerk was not a tactic, but an actual personality/character trait. — James Riley

Of course, you can be honest (while still maintaining decency) outside of official office hours, but once inside, just behave as expected. Bernie is good with this, I like AOC here (though some people hate her to an extreme which is crazy to me).

They can call her a communist or socialist all they want, but she would literally belong to the right wing in most European countries such as Germany, France, Spain - they don't argue against universal healthcare or maternity leave. These days they may want to trim it down in these countries, but they would not dream of privatizing it, they would vanish in hours.

Dan Crenshaw? He has criticized Trump's actions on Jan 6th and basically for the ex-soldier Trump "isn't the Devil, but isn't Jesus either". I think that is actually a very representative attitude of how Republicans really think of Trump, when you toned down the hype. — ssu

I was thinking more of a situation where they are both on stage and Crenshaw (or anyone, really) faces Trump, looks him in the eye and says "You are a dishonorable coward and a liar. And I my honor won't let me abide your leadership. I encourage all good conservative men and women to find a better human being to represent them and their principles." Then stand there, silently, facing him, waiting, smiling.

Then I woke up.

I like AOC here — Manuel

I do too. I just hope the years in contact with politicians doesn't turn her into one. Bernie seems to have been *relatively* human, so it can be done. But politics has a way of sullying the best of people. She seems so young, and clean, and smart. I'd hate to see her turn into a conniving game player. You want to know who else is sharp as a freaking razor (and without notes or teleprompters)? Pete Buttigieg.

I think Mitt Romney is another of those rare Republicans. — ssu

No. Not. He's been around a long time. If there was any good in him, we'd all know it. He's just not as bad as some. And actually, I think he is, but too careful to make too much trouble for anyone except those he can hurt with relative impunity.

He is. I'm not a fan, but I have to give him credit he is quite capable.

If AOC were a man, she would not get nearly as much crap. I'm pretty confident about that.

If AOC were a man, she would not get nearly as much crap. I'm pretty confident about that. — Manuel

That's the other thing about politics: She's forced to stand on her own. And I guess that is as it should be. And I think she can do it. She's tough. But in the old school, a real man would not let another man treat her the way she's been treated. Yeah, if a woman kicks you in the balls for no reason, I see no problem with punching her in the face. But I don't see AOC kicking anyone, being disrespectful or otherwise "asking for it." She's been acting like a lady, and respectful, just speaking some truth: if that hurts some Republican or challenges his masculinity, tough. He's the pussy. Let Trump grab him.

Anyway, I know full well I sound like a sexist POS but that's the way I roll. I don't want to see her end up like Hillary or Nancy or Mitch McConnel. They got tough, which is not bad, but they also got conniving. Sad, really.

When I look back at what I just said, I realize how naïve and stupid I sound. It is, after all, politics. I guess that's why I stay out the kitchen: I can't handle the heat. :lol: Good luck to her (and Bernie).

But I don't see AOC kicking anyone, being disrespectful or otherwise "asking for it." She's been acting like a lady, and respectful, just speaking some truth: if that hurts some Republican or challenges his masculinity, tough. He's the pussy. Let Trump grab him. — James Riley

Agree, although Republicans distort even this as if she were speaking rudely.

Anyway, I know full well I sound like a sexist POS but that's the way I roll. I don't want to see her end up like Hillary or Nancy or Mitch McConnel. They got tough, which is not bad, but they also got conniving. Sad, really. — James Riley

I don't think it's sexist, it makes sense to me. I doubt she will turn into Nancy, though one never knows. Just look at the complete 180 Tulsi Gabbard did in like 3 or 4 months, that's kinda disgusting.

When I look back at what I just said, I realize how naïve and stupid I sound. It is, after all, politics. I guess that's why I stay out the kitchen: I can't handle the heat. :lol: Good luck to her (and Bernie). — James Riley

It's politics. We need all types of views. Nothing wrong with how you see things. I agree with it.

:100:

Imagine dying from lack of healthcare only to have to watch people spend time talking about off-color anime memes. It's true that politicians should live in a state of constant fear; the trade off for power should always be misery or the constant threat of it. The problem in this situation is that it came from another politician, and not a civically educated and empowered populace.

Civically educated people effectively spend their time producing and publishing threatening anime memes directed at politicians? Shouldn’t they know it’s a felony?

Censure doesn’t involve removing people from committees. This particular resolution includes both the censure and removal in two different parts, but the removal doesn’t follow from the censure.

Gosar is the 24th House member to be censured. Though it carries no practical effect, except to provide a historic footnote that marks a lawmaker's career, it is the strongest punishment the House can issue short of expulsion, which requires a two-thirds vote.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/house-to-vote-on-censuring-gosar-over-tweeting-violent-anime-video

A censure resolution, if brought to the floor, could pass by majority vote. (Expelling a member requires a two-thirds majority.) A censure would have no practical effects on the GOP congressman, but it would a permanent scar on Gosar's record.

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/ncna1283716

Censure still has zero effect.

Censure still has zero effect. — NOS4A2

That's what's known as a distinction without a difference.

Civically educated people effectively spend their time producing and publishing threatening anime memes directed at politicians? — praxis

It just takes one dude in a basement yo. And 'civic' doesn't mean 'doing everything according to the law' - its why disobedience can be 'civic'. And yes, thrashing politicians for being shit - or for being politicians at all - is absolutely civic. Politicians should feel threatened by their constituencies, always. A vote means: 'you are worthy of my contempt', not 'I support you'.

Censure still has zero effect. — NOS4A2

We're talking about it. So there's that.

I would hope that a civically educated citizen would know how to spend their time more productively. In any case, it takes very little education to manipulate anime video so childishly.

Making shitty memes is the politics of the proletariat. Maybe instead of sticking up for bloodsucking politicians consider putting away your high-nosed class pretentions?

It’s either true or false. That’s enough of a difference for me.

Making shitty memes is the politics of the proletariat. — StreetlightX

Yes, meanwhile, Amazon pays an unlivable wage and Jeff sends Captain Kirk into orbit for shits and giggles. Great politicking!

Maybe instead of sticking up for bloodsucking politicians consider putting away your high-nosed class pretentions? — StreetlightX

I haven’t stood up for any politicians in this topic, with my nose or any other part of my anatomy.

It’s either true or false. That’s enough of a difference for me. — NOS4A2

Well argued.

What is politically expedient is to satisfy the insatiable demand for transgressive performance. There is a market demand for that and suppliers are working to meet it. The carnival of mutual disgust consumes all surrounding resources. The credit line of opportunity costs accrued indulging in the catharsis keeps getting bigger but there is no income coming in to balance it against. It is the condition of people who have nothing to do with what keeps them alive. And if they cannot survive they will have at least taken down their enemies with them.

Normalization of deviance is a term used by the American sociologist Diane Vaughan to describe the process in which deviance from correct or proper behavior becomes normalized in a corporate culture.[1]

Vaughan defines this as a process where a clearly unsafe practice comes to be considered normal if it does not immediately cause a catastrophe: "a long incubation period [before a final disaster] with early warning signs that were either misinterpreted, ignored or missed completely".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance