Treating everyone the same isn't fair — frank

Treating people differently isn’t fair. — NOS4A2

Two ships, passing in the night.

It's the opposite. Treating people differently isn’t fair. — NOS4A2

Suppose when you were in school you had trouble learning to read. Would it be unfair to the better students if you received tutoring?

If it was a true example of state control and censorship, the Covid-19 outbreak would be over already...

Countless prisons have had massive outbreaks, so I’m not sure a “true example of state control” would help any.



I don’t think that it is unfair so long as others can receive tutoring. Do you think it is fair that I should be the only one allowed to receive tutoring?

Suppose when you were in school you had trouble learning to read. Would it be unfair to the better students if you received tutoring? — frank

It is only fair if the child who wants or needs the tutoring is required to pay for it. Otherwise, how are they going to learn about bootstrapping self-sufficiency? If their parents or society pay for it, then the kid is going to grow up as a self-entitled little communist socialist.

I'm sure that if the parents, or others who care actually care, they can find a position in a factory or somewhere the indentured obligation can be worked off.

Countless prisons have had massive outbreaks, so I’m not sure a “true example of state control” would help any. — NOS4A2

Emphasis added. Meaning all the other hyperbolic examples are not true examples of state control. They're just examples of rhetorical whining about a non-issue ginned up by Faux News, et al.

It’s like the no true Scotsman fallacy. The trick to refuting my examples of state control is to assert that it is not true state control.

The trick to refuting my examples of state control is to assert that it is not true state control. — NOS4A2

You mean like you did when you said the state prisons don't even count as state control?

I never said that. No, I’m speaking of the one you fell for.

I never said that. No, I’m speaking of the one you fell for. — NOS4A2

I didn't fall for anything, least of all the hole you keep digging for yourself. In response to john27, you said:

↪john27

If it was a true example of state control and censorship, the Covid-19 outbreak would be over already...

Countless prisons have had massive outbreaks, so I’m not sure a “true example of state control” would help any. — NOS4A2

I refuted your example of state control (you know, the ones you keep complaining about as an infringement of your freedom), true or otherwise, by showing the state has been unable to control Covid due to those who fail to mask, distance, vax and boost.

That’s just false. The failure of state control is no refutation of the existence of state control. First a no true Scotsman then a non sequitor. It’s just getting weird at this point.

That’s just false. The failure of state control is no refutation of the existence of state control. — NOS4A2

If state control is a failure, then what the hell are you whining about? You aren't even in prison, and yet you complain as if the Covid response is a dystopian hellscape of lock-downs; and cowboys roping, throwing, and branding with the vax. The mask police are out to get you! :rofl: All your misuse of Scotsman, and trying to hide your own inconsistent statements, with false accusations in Latin, are not going to get you out of the hole you keep digging.

I already taught you that if the state has failed, it's because of those who refuse to distance, mask, vax and boost. The fact that state has NOT forced you to do anything is proof there is no state control, failed or otherwise. DOH!

I’ve already stated my problems with state control. Its tendency to fail is just another problem with state control.

I think the only hole I’ve dug myself into is this conversation. So let’s just leave it at that.

I’ve already stated my problems with state control. Its tendency to fail is just another problem with state control. — NOS4A2

So far, all the state has been doing is asking. So, if as you say, the state tendency to fail is a problem, then you should distance, mask, vax, boost, and encourage others to do likewise. Otherwise, the state may have to succeed where you have failed. You wouldn't like that. The state fails because a minority of petulant, obstinate people won't do as they are asked. It would certainly add a gleam to the eye of those cowboys who otherwise really wouldn't have one.

I don’t think that it is unfair so long as others can receive tutoring. Do you think it is fair that I should be the only one allowed to receive tutoring? — NOS4A2

The better students don't need tutoring, so they won't receive it.

I think it's fair that only you receive it because you're the one who needs it. Do you disagree with that?

The better students don't need tutoring, so they won't receive it.

I think it's fair that only you receive it because you're the one who needs it. Do you disagree with that?

I do disagree with that because it is unfair to deny people access to tutoring because you believe they do not need it. it is also unfair to the lesser student because you don't consider whether he wants it.

I do disagree with that because it is unfair to deny people access to tutoring because you believe they do not need it. it is also unfair to the lesser student — NOS4A2

I was kind of hoping you would say that because it allows me to demonstrate one of the major liberal problematics (or one facet of the problematic).

If you look around, you'll find that most people disagree with you and on this point, so if the issue was put to a vote, the result would undoubtedly be that Unfairness (from your point of view) would win.

The only way to achieve the good (from your point of view) is a strong authoritarian state, one that is able to resist the common will. And this is exactly what early neoliberal theory advised

:fire:

The only way to achieve the good (from your point of view) is a strong authoritarian state, one that is able to resist the common will. — frank

:100: Exactly. A state that fails to control should be celebrated for failing to control; unless one champions success in state control. An alternative is for the state to channel the common will and ask politely. But some see that as a sign of weakness and tell the state to fuck off. Tough guys gotta flex. :roll:

I don’t see how my point of view leads to an authoritarian state, one that is able to resist the common will. It does not follow that my view of proper government precludes others erecting a different system. And the idea that we can “achieve the good” (whatever that means) through statist tinkering seems to me absurd. Maybe some more demonstration is in order.

But to link us back to the title of this thread:

"Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.". -- Hayek

:razz:

Good quote. But it doesn’t sum up Hayek’s view on emergency powers.

The patriot act, the war on drugs, the war on terror, anti-communism, the pandemic—no shortage of state aggrandizement exists. It reminds me of Madison’s quote from a letter he wrote to Jefferson, “you understand the game behind the Curtain too well not to perceive the old trick of turning every contingency into a resource for accumulating force in the Government”. I fear we see that here.

The patriot act, the war on drugs, the war on terror, anti-communism, the pandemic—no shortage of state aggrandizement exists. — NOS4A2

In response to crisis, yes. Humans collectivize in the face of danger to the community. Probably evolved that way.

Countless prisons have had massive outbreaks, so I’m not sure a “true example of state control” would help any. — NOS4A2

By true I didn't mean perfect. I meant it even being a hint of what your trying to describe.
:lol:

I already taught you that if the state has failed, it's because of those who refuse to distance, mask, vax and boost. The fact that state has NOT forced you to do anything is proof there is no state control, failed or otherwise. DOH! — James Riley

:strong:

Anyone have any idea whether global warming/climate change and COVID-19 are related?

Anyone have any idea whether global warming/climate change and COVID-19 are related? — TheMadFool

Human population growth.

Your claim that the Covid-19 outbreak would be over already if there was censorship and state control is nonsense. Not only is it counterfactual, but manifestly untrue. States worldwide have shut down entire industries, travel, religion, and most gatherings, and the pandemic continues.

↪john27

Your claim that the Covid-19 outbreak would be over already if there was censorship and state control is nonsense. Not only is it counterfactual, but manifestly untrue. States worldwide have shut down entire industries, travel, religion, and most gatherings, and the pandemic continues. — NOS4A2

You said:

All this science on your side and look how well you’ve done. Mass death, the denial of fundamental liberties, medical discrimination, huge transfers of wealth, police states, rampant authoritarianism. Defenders of freedom? More like defenders of regimented societies, segregation, state control, censorship.
— NOS4A2

If it was a true example of state control and censorship, the Covid-19 outbreak would be over already... — john27

I know you don't see how you just stuck your foot in your mouth, but I'm sure everyone else does. We have taught you two things: 1. The state control that you fear does not exist; 2. Even if it did, Covid would overcome it with the aiding, comforting and abetting of people who agree with you. But you have not learned. That inability to learn lessons is precisely why science and the state has not defeated Covid.

I don’t see it because you cannot show it. You’ve taught nothing. You’ve only asserted without evidence. Is compulsory vaccination not state control? Is the limitations on travel and gathering not state control? Is the mandates and lockdowns not state control? Continue your lessons.

Are you vaccinated?

Proofs in the pudding.

I don’t see it because you cannot show it. — NOS4A2

I've shown it but you cannot see.

You’ve taught nothing. — NOS4A2

I have taught but you have not learned.

You’ve only asserted without evidence. — NOS4A2

This thread is full of evidence.

Is compulsory vaccination not state control? — NOS4A2

Compulsory vaccination is when the state tracks you down, hog ties you, or runs you through a squeeze chute and vaccinates you. Not when someone puts up a sign that says "No shoes, no shirts, no service." Remember when I taught you about your hyperbole? No? Didn't think so. Oh, wait, I forgot about the Karen Amendment, allowing you to go shirtless and shoeless while still demanding service. Sorry.

Is the limitations on travel and gathering not state control? — NOS4A2

No, it is not. There is, at least in the U.S., a Constitutional Right to travel. But you may have to walk if you don't want to get a driver's license and if you want to use our roads. See the difference? No? I didn't think so.

Is the mandates and lockdowns not state control? — NOS4A2

No. They are not. They are the state depriving you of access to state services. You can carry on in your libertarian Eden. You just can't avail yourself of our stuff.

Continue your lessons. — NOS4A2

Seems rather futile, but if you insist.

P.S. Have you provided us with an analysis of infection/hospitalization/death rate comparisons between jurisdictions? I know the U.S. is one of the most lenient countries, but we've had over 750k deaths. Who spun up the variants? The state?