Humour in philosophy - where is it?

Cuthbert

If I could have studied under anyone at all I think it would have been Sidney Morgenbesser. His proposed response to Heidegger's ontological query "Why is there something rather than nothing?" was "And if there were nothing? You'd still be complaining!" Or possibly Lewis Carroll: “I’m sure my memory only works one way,” Alice remarked. “I can’t remember things before they happen.” Echoes of Wittgenstein who said [citation needed] that a serious and good philosophical work could be written that would consist entirely of jokes.

The question is: what's happened to humour in philosophy? In Maths we have the great stand-up mathematician Matt Parker. We have stand up for the Classics with Natalie Haynes. And the Map Men do a great job for geography. It's odd that we don't - or do we? - is this just my ignorance? - have a stand up philosopher. Especially seeing that the images used in philosophy are often so hilarious, even without heckling from a club audience. I mean, brains in vats and fat men on bridges and kidnapped women hooked up to famous violinists and planets with water that isn't water. It's like a combination of a 1950's horror movie, a Laurel and Hardy short and a rejected Netflix pitch. It's also amazingly serious and excites profound emotion. A couple of the examples I just gave are dealing with life and death matters of moral responsibility. This would seem fertile ground for a culture in which serious matters are allowed intelligent and witty airing. Why is philosophy lagging behind?

Tobias

In the Netherlans we have a comedian, Tim Franssen, who does philosophical stand up comedy, mixing in both deep ideas with black humour and sometimes very unexpected vulgar jokes. I saw his show about Kantian morality on stage and it was really good.

During the first waves of the corona pandemic he recogded a series of podcasts, called "Civilisation, the Aftertoughts". The dutch word is is 'nabeschouwing' which is unfortunately hard to translate but it is what sports analysts do when they comment on a game after it has been played. He also acts like that a little, giving commentary on the game.

I think it is a good combination actually. humour helps us cope in practice with the absurdity of existence and jokes confront us with missmatches between our idealized world of aims, ideas and endeavours and the every day stumbling and fooling around we engage in in practice.

Jack Cummins

↪Cuthbert

Humour is extremely important in life and without it everything can become so heavy and dull, especially with all the big philosophy questions. I know that on a daily basis I have to be careful not to lose humour. Perhaps, laughing at at absurdities is possible and, it may be preferable to be able to laugh at oneself rather than others, to avoid causing offence. Maybe, life is a complex mixture of tragedy and comedy.

TheMadFool

A serious and good philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes. — Ludwig Wittgenstein

The funniest of the funniest are contradictions! :chin: Is Wittgenstein taking a swipe at philosophers who take their line of work (too) seriously.

P.S. Contradictions are hilarious when others do it. When you do it, it ain't funny, it hurts like hell!

When a superior man hears of the Tao,
he immediately begins to embody it.
When an average man hears of the Tao,
he half believes it, half doubts it.
When a foolish man hears of the Tao,
he laughs out loud.
If he didn't laugh,
it wouldn't be the Tao. — Tao Te Ching

What about Democritus, the laughing philosopher (cf. Heraclitus, the weeping philosopher). My take on the two diametrically opposite reactions to life and reality is that Democritus wasn't laughing because life is funny, he was laughing because life is sad and Heraclitus wasn't crying because life is sad, he was crying because life is a funny.

Vide infra (from the thread: Play: What is it? How to do it?)

Suppose God exists. You ask him "why God did you make the world as it is?" He responds "I was just playing."

What's going to be your reaction? [Choices not restricted to one emoji]

1. :rofl:

2. :angry:

3. :cry:

4. :meh:

5. :gasp:

6. :worry:

7. :chin:

8. :brow:

9. :confused:

10. :pray:

11. :roll: — TheMadFool

I choose #1 :rofl: — Athena

If philosophy is a joke, the punchline would be...Sophia doesn't love you back dear! :smile:

James Riley

I'm going to have to stay up with this thread. I love to laugh, even though I don't do it much. Anyway, I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless.

T Clark

The question is: what's happened to humour in philosophy? — Cuthbert

I think a case can be made that stand-up comedians in general are philosophers. My favorites; Bill Burr, Louis C.K, John Mulaney, Jerry Seinfeld....; certainly are.

If you're looking for philosophical humor, I'll steer you toward one of my favorite threads - "Philosophy joke of the day."

Lesser known logical fallacies:

Michael Scott fallacy – Using the phrase “That’s what she said.”
Family dog fallacy – Telling your opponent that your dog ate your argument.
In mater tua fallacy – Insulting your opponent’s mother
Appeal to personal authority fallacy – Using the phrase “Because I said so.”
Command fallacy – Defending your argument using the phrase “Shut up!”
StreetlightX fallacy – Using the phrase “Well, that’s how we do it in Australia.”
Conturbabimus illa ratio fallacy – Expressing your numerical arguments in base 7. — T Clark

180 Proof

I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless. — James Riley

:up:

If philosophy is a joke, the punchline would be...Sophia doesn't love you back dear! :smile: — TheMadFool

I didn't realize till this quip, Fool, you're a closet-
Spinozist! How absurd.

TheMadFool

I'm going to have to stay up with this thread. I love to laugh, even though I don't do it much. Anyway, I think that all stand-ups (the good ones anyway), are philosophers, in their own right. Some better and deeper than others, but all philosophers nonetheless. — James Riley

:up:

TheMadFool

I didn't realize till this quip, Fool, you're a closet-
Spinozist! How absurd. — 180 Proof

:grin:

180 Proof

A motley gaggle of hilariously "philosophical" rodeo clowns who can slap-n-tickle my "pineal gland" into a frenzy:

( ... )
Groucho Marx
Lenny Bruce
Richard Prior
Woody Allen
George Carlin
Robin Williams
John Cleese
Rowan Atkinson
Bill Hicks
Bernie Mac
Dave Chappell
Bill Burr

James Riley

"Why is there something rather than nothing?" was "And if there were nothing? You'd still be complaining!" — Cuthbert

That right there just fucking nails it! :rofl:

baker

I think it is a good combination actually. humour helps us cope in practice with the absurdity of existence and jokes confront us with missmatches between our idealized world of aims, ideas and endeavours and the every day stumbling and fooling around we engage in in practice. — Tobias

But philosophers don't all believe that our existence is absurd; in fact, many, if not most, don't.

As for the mismatch: If anything, philosophers are trying to make sense of it, not bemoan it and joke about it like third-class moralizing busybodies.

Cuthbert

Ok, I think I get it. I shouldn't be looking for philosophers doing stand-up. I should be looking for stand-ups doing philosophy. That's a great idea!

Cartuna

A nice comedy would be the play of a group of philosophers pissing on established philosophy, thereby creating understanding and a possible liberation from the establishment.

Tom Storm

Ok, I think I get it. I shouldn't be looking for philosophers doing stand-up. I should be looking for stand-ups doing philosophy. That's a great idea! — Cuthbert

Maybe. I personally dislike most stand up comedy, so I'm out. :groan:

Manuel

↪180 Proof

:ok:

I like sushi

Zizek is quite funny sometimes

Tom Storm

↪I like sushi

He is. Good example.

Jamal

Yes, I thought about mentioning Zizek. He uses jokes to elucidate his concepts, especially the concept of ideology.

god must be atheist

How many here have seen the clip in "Monthy Python at the Hollywood Bowl", where they televise a soccer match between a team of classical Greek philosophers and a team of German philosophers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduUFF_i1A

Cuthbert

Maybe. I personally dislike most stand up comedy, so I'm out. — Tom Storm

My feelings exactly until a new breed of stand-up appeared which consists of very witty treatment of serious subjects - basically, excellent lectures. I mentioned maths, Classics and geography, there are probably more. If 'stand-up' calls to mind some guy wittering on about his flatmate's bathroom habits then I agree, but there's more to it than that, I promise.

Cuthbert

↪god must be atheist

Oh gosh, I've never seen that. I laughed from start to finish. Thank you. I guess you know Jonathan Miller as Bertrand Russell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSifxC_L9F0

god must be atheist

I guess you know Jonathan Miller as Bertrand Russell? — Cuthbert

Loved it!! I hadn't known. Thanks for showing it!

T Clark

How many here have seen the clip in "Monthy Python at the Hollywood Bowl", where they televise a soccer match between a team of classical Greek philosophers and a team of German philosophers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduUFF_i1A — god must be atheist

Yes. It's hard to talk about philosophical humor, or humorous philosophy, without bringing this out.

Tom Storm

If 'stand-up' calls to mind some guy wittering on about his flatmate's bathroom habits then I agree, but there's more to it than that, I promise. — Cuthbert

It's not just the material, it's the form. And I have no sense of humour. I find comedians generally too needy for love or hectoring bores.

baker

I find comedians generally too needy for love or hectoring bores. — Tom Storm

And miserable. So miserable.

When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise. What is surprising is that so many people don't seem to see the signs early on -- the dropping corners of the comedian's mouth when they smile, the sad eyes, the conspicuous hyperoptimism.

T Clark

And miserable. So miserable.

When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise. — baker

Just as true, or more so, of philosophers and wannabe philosophers.

Tom Storm

Just as true, or more so, of philosophers and wannabe philosophers. — T Clark

And don't even talk to me about actors....

James Riley

↪T Clark

:100:

The comedian aside, what of the joy they bring to others? Is the audience no different than a crowd in Rome, taking delight in watching others die? I don't think so. I think it is more like those who appreciate a painting or sculpture who may be aware the artist has a tortured soul.

As another digression, I love watching the crowd during a stand-up routine, particularly attractive women caught in unguarded, selfless, mirth. Indeed, even the not-so attractive become more so. I don't know why. Have to ask Freud or some shrink. :grin:

Tom Storm

When it eventually comes out that such and such comedian is depressed, or committed suicide, somehow, it's not a surprise. — baker

The trope of the sad clown is one of those unfortunate truths about humor. I tend to see the funny side of real things rather than contrived things. I can't do comedy movies or any kind of sitcom either. I find Nietzsche amusing in places ("In heaven all the interesting people are missing.") and he may well have been a riot in person. But I am not a deep reader of his oeuvre and I can't help feeling that if he had just been more successful with women he might have been a very different style of writer.

Cartuna

Plato enters his mathematical heaven when dead. In ecstasy he contemplates the final unification with his Platonic bodies. When cooled down, he buys a packet of cigarettes at the local tetrahedron and lightens one up. Walking along contently, exhaling jolly spheres, he suddenly hears someone crying. It's Aristotle, sitting on a perfect cube, weeping tears by the bucket. Plato moves his ass to the cube. "Aristotle, my man! Why the tears?" Arìstotle took a handkerchief and loudly blew his nose. "Damn you Plato, you were right all the time, and as a matter of fact, I should still be down there", after which he cried even louder, calling for mama, and exclaiming shockingly that life ain't fair.

Humour in philosophy - where is it?

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