2. P is justified — TheMadFool
One can see that justification is also knowledge, and that one can be wrong when one thinks one knows something. So the farmer is mistaken in his implicit claim to know that a that a cow shape is a cow. Had he further justified this by touch or smell, he would not have made the knowledge claim about the cow in the field.
Gettier is mistaken in thinking he has found a failure in our understanding of knowledge. He has discovered fallibility. — unenlightened
Are you saying that the farmer's belief isn't justified? — Michael
Gettier is mistaken in thinking he has found a failure in our understanding of knowledge. — unenlightened
He has discovered fallibility. — unenlightened
Yes. It is justified by something that turns out to be false, so it it turns out not to be justified. this is how we proceed is it not? — unenlightened
Farmer Giles believes his cabbages will fail because the fairies have cursed them and that belief is justified on the grounds that he failed to put milk out for them last full moon.
What I'm driving at is all Gettier cases seem to be such that they violate the proportio divina rule (the conclusion is disproportionate given the premises). — TheMadFool
Let's say that you put 123 × 123 into a calculator and it tells you that the answer is 15,129. Are you justified in believing that 123 × 123 = 15,129? — Michael
A false belief can be justified. That's why the JTB definition of knowledge is JTB, not just JB. — Michael
I believe I am (justified). The calculator nearly always gets basic math right. What's your point? — TheMadFool
What you didn't know is that the calculator you used is broken and always gives an answer of 15,129.
You believe that 123 × 123 = 15,129, it is true that 123 × 123 = 15,129, and as per your own acknowledgement you are justified in believing that 123 × 123 = 15,129. But Gettier would argue that you don't know that 123 × 123 = 15,129. Your justified belief is only accidentally correct. — Michael
The standard response to that would be a presupposition was wrong. Gettier isn't right still. — TheMadFool
justified — Michael
Not justified. An assumption - the calculator is working - was false. — TheMadFool
You said it was justified.
And as above, a false belief can be justified. — Michael
If all my assumptions are true then P is true. — TheMadFool
But false beliefs can be justified, too. Again, that's why knowledge is commonly defined as justified true belief, not just justified belief. — Michael
Gimme an example of a false belief that's justified. Inductive arguments are not allowed. — TheMadFool
I use a calculator and it tells me that the square root of 2 is 1.41421356237 — Michael
This is unjustified. We've already crossed that bridge. — TheMadFool
The JTB definition of knowledge, insofar as deduction is concerned, has the condition true as redundant. — TheMadFool
According to what you mean by "justified". But that's not the meaning of "justified" as used by those who argue(d) that knowledge is justified true belief, and so not the meaning of "justified" as used by Gettier. — Michael
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