I don't think there's need for a debate on "causality". It's just the relation between cause and effect. If we are to debate over such things, we'll never be able to complete any discussion!isn't this just a debate about the definition of 'causality' — clemogo
The relation between cause & effect can be whatever, millions of things. From the part of either the cause or the effect. You just have to see what both terms mean. Simply put, a cause is something that produces an action, phenomenon, condition, change, etc. An effect is a change produced as a result or consequence of a cause (as described above). Using mathematic combinations you get a pretty huge number! (It would be ridiculous to give an example ...)you have 1) cause, 2) effect, and now you want a third, 3) the relation between them. How does that work? What is the "relation"? — tim wood
Ah! I guess you are referring to the actual cause of the event, right? This is more interesting! :smile:the question concerning a man who buys dynamite to blow a tree stump out of the ground. The dynamite explodes: what caused it to explode? — tim wood
I agree. Maybe this is related to the "mechanics" of the cause & effect relation that I mentioned above ... But whatever is the case, cause-and-effect is always there. You can't escape it! :smile: Besides, this is the subject of the topic! :grin:If on the other hand you want an account of how the world actually works, cause-and-effect isn't a good enough idea. — tim wood
I explained to you the difference between "direct" case and "actual" cause. Maybe the word "actual" is the problem. But from the example(s) I gave it should be very clear. I could mabe use the word "real" or even better, "source", meaning the origination of the evenf (explosion).And here I wonder if we have a language difference — tim wood
My question is: isn't this just a debate about the definition of 'causality'? Does it really matter which definition we accept? Can't we simply decide the definition? — clemogo
And by 'definition of causation' I don't mean the literal dictionary definition or scientific definition. I'm referring to whether or not causation is transitive... can we just decide whether or not it is? Or is it something that needs to be discovered somehow? — clemogo
Do you have a clear idea of what the purpose of the labor over "cause" is? It seems that cause itself is a word that seems to have a meaning, but that disappears when looked at closely, making it a word for informal use, or one to be defined as a term of art by its several users - a lawyer's delight. That is, it's not a one but a many, and most of those incompatible. So I'm baffled why anyone bothers with it - and I read that scientists use it only informally if at all; that is, not a concept in science. — tim wood
And it may be altogether in the eye of the beholder. An example from a book: a car rolls in a turn; what caused it? Driving too fast, according to the police. Bad suspension, per the automotive engineer. Off-camber road, according to the road builder. And here we get contributory causes, which is to say that no cause is a cause! — tim wood
Known because denoted or denoted because known? If the latter, an example, please? — tim wood
It appears that "cause" in your references is a term of art. What exactly does it mean? And what do you say caused the dynamite to explode? Or might you say that depends entirely on the who and why of the asking. And if this, then it must seem that there is no cause by itself - or even a clear understanding of the event itself!
My argument here, such as it is, simply that in informal use most folks usually know what is meant by the word "cause" in context. But I think any claim that the word itself denotes any particular anything or has any central univocal meaning is untenable. — tim wood
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.