we have in place a strong and competent tracing system. Folk who have been identified as potentially carrying the Dreaded Lurgy are asked to get tested and isolate pending the result. If someone were to attend a venue during that period they would receive a $1000 fine. — Banno
Why do independent left-wing voices, supposedly concerned about things like social welfare, fighting corporate overreach and government 'sponsorship' rackets, act like they're in Pfizers PR department...? — Isaac
But it appears that gone are the times when mainstream society would think that operating that way is not ethical. — baker
One reason I've been away from the forum a few months is I accused a private equity investor of money laundering (because he was obviously laundering money and trying to use our engineering documents and concepts to do so ... then tried to make me actively help launder money by offering a million Euro bribe), which created a shit storm that persists to this day. — boethius
Turns out Nazi's were totally correct about the use of coercive medical interventions (whatever people want to call it), relentless propaganda and blaming everything on a scapegoat that in turn solicits unquestioning loyalty to government power insofar as governments can deliver on harms to those scapegoats.
I guess the idea now is that the Nazi's were just wrong about the reasons for their coercion, wrong about their particular version of "peer reviewed science", and wrong about the class of people targeted for scapegoatism and second class citizenship ... but they were right about the basic setup, as long as the reasons happen to be claimed as "correct" this time? That's the European policy? — boethius
I'm afraid I'm quite baffled as to why the pronouncements of the medical industry are taken as such gospel truths. We wouldn't treat the oil industry, or arms manufacturers the same way. If any policy favours either of those we're (quite rightly) immediately deeply suspicious. We suspect lobbying pressure, we suspect insider dealing, we suspect backhanders, share deals etc. The pharmaceutical industry spends four, five times more than either of those on lobbying and yet those same suspicions when levied against them are treated as mad conspiracies.
Edit - "baffled" is rhetorical. I'm not baffled at all. We fear death, the medical industry offers us a way to postpone it, we fear rejecting them. — Isaac
How 'identified'? — Isaac
I hadn't dared to post Norman's work, I'm glad someone did. Another perfectly decent career down the pan. He hasn't had a single paper accepted by any journal since publishing his query about the validity of these statistics. A perfectly normal (actually slighter higher than average) acceptance rate up to that point. But apparently nothing to see here...
Since it's out now - his evidence to the UK's Parliamentary committee - https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/13847/pdf/ — Isaac
Anti-vaxxers & Assange? — Agent Smith
1. What does anyone here think of the link between Assange & Conspiracy theories? There's lotsa ammo in the warehouse, sir! — Agent Smith
In a group of ten, everyone is given the same information. If nine group members come to the same conclusion, the tenth person becomes the devil's advocate. The tenth person is now responsible for disproving the others.
By contact tracing. — Banno
I understand your concerns, but I do not share them. The evidence I've seen is that vaccination reduces viral load and hence transmission. — Banno
Money heading off to Pfizer and friends might be regretted eventually. Nationalise 'em, I say. — Banno
The idea Dr. Norman (and his whole team!) can just be removed from the conversation is completely absurd. Likewise, other experts, of which there are many with advanced degrees, professorships, questioning the statistical "evidence" of the governments as well as moral / legal basis for mandates in any case. — boethius
...that worked well. — Banno
I was pitching for up-against-the-wall-come-the-revolution, but yeah...nationalise sounds more pragmatic! — Isaac
If we were to do a Venn Diagram of our positions, there would be a fair amount of overlap. I would enthusiastically support all of these things even if the pandemic had never happened.better investment in healthcare, proper equipping of ICUs, removing barriers to healthcare in minority and poor communities, transparent and believable information about hygiene practices . . . — Isaac
I would put vaccines second in that list but otherwise we are largely in agreement.efficient and fast lockdowns, social distancing, masking, and vaccines. — Isaac
I guess daily testing of the entire population and enforced isolation of people who test positive might also work. I can't speak for other countries, but that would never fly in the good old USA.There's one thing which will determine if you are liable to spread the virus to others, and that's having the virus. Whether or not you are likely to have the virus can be determined by a test. — Isaac
I could be mistaken but to the best of my knowledge that is not correct. You can have antibodies and still get Covid - albeit most likely a mild case.There's one thing which determines if you're immune and that's having the appropriate antibodies — Isaac
Agree that the profit motive should be removed from health care in the USA. But I do not buy the narrative that the influence of the evil pharmaceuticals extends to all the countries in the world that have socialized medical systems.Why do governments push the one solution that earns the largest government lobby group the world has ever seen billions of dollars... — Isaac
Whether vaccine mandates prevent transmission is an open question - there are both pro & con studies. But I still go back to the fact that the daily death rate in the US is over 1K and that 99% of the deaths are unvax'd. In New York City, after vaccines were mandated for municipal workers? The rate of vaccinated workers shot up dramatically. I don't have the exact figures, but it went from something like 60% to over 90%. If vaccine mandates will get folks to take the jab when they otherwise would not, then I approve.{vaccines] are a very effective aid to reducing disease severity in those at risk — Isaac
This is going back to my schadenfreude. I get the distinction between being deliberately harmed and mistakenly harmed, but this only goes so far. Regarding beliefs, one of the most common topics of conversation on TPF is the distinction between knowledge & beliefs. I am not going too deeply down that particular rabbit hole, but if a person's beliefs do not correspond to reality then bad things can happen. I understand why people are suspicious of government (especially African -American), but at some point you have to either accept the facts or take your chances.People who are trying to harm you and people who happen to harm you because they are wrong are two very different categories of people.
This seems to be another common theme here, judging other people's intents using your beliefs. Other people act on the basis of their beliefs, not yours.
If they think the vaccine is overall more harmful then you'd judge them to be mistaken, not selfish.
I can get behind the idea that selfish people deserve any negative consequence they reap, I find it a lot harder to get behind the idea that mistaken people do. — Isaac
"Virtually every case of the Omicron variant to date has been found in fully vaccinated students, a portion of whom had also received a booster shot," said Vice President for University Relations Joel Malina in a statement.
As of result, the school has decided to shut down its Ithaca, New York, campus, where it has about 25,600 students. Cornell's overall vaccination rate among students is 97%.
[ … ]
The school has a mandatory vaccination policy for students, with exemptions for religious or medical issues. All unvaccinated students and many vaccinated students are required to take part in surveillance testing. Mask wearing indoors is compulsory.
Employees must be vaccinated by January 18. Ninety-seven percent of people on campus are fully vaccinated, the university says on its website.
"Cornell is not requiring members of our community to receive a booster at this time; however, as breakthrough cases continue to occur, we encourage you to consider receiving a booster," officials said.
I'd expect most to be disgusted about the scandals. — jorndoe
The Great Barrington Declaration (which I don't actually agree with, by the way - I'm using it as an example of the discourse, not an example of good policy) was trodden into the dirt for receiving web hosting and administrative support from AIER (who, again, I've got absolutely no time for) totalling some thousand at most. The government appointed CDC declarations are treated as gospel despite receiving over a billion dollars from the very industry whose products their pronouncements are about - and no-one even so much as raises an eyebrow. — Isaac
So what will they think of next? — NOS4A2
That's a misleading quote."Virtually every case of the Omicron variant to date has been found in fully vaccinated students, a portion of whom had also received a booster shot,"
That's a misleading quote. — magritte
An institution with a mandatory vaccination policy, compulsory mask policy, and surveillance testing has become a den of superspreaders. So what will they think of next? — NOS4A2
The main problem is the lack of social distancing. — magritte
But you didn't make any point at all. I wish you would.literally the only point made in the entire post — Isaac
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