Mars has to colonised. — I like sushi

Why? Has it failed in some way that an invasion from earth could fix it?

bee … or maybe that should be ant?

The thing is, who would front the money? — Manuel

Whenever someone talks cheerfully about colonising Mars, they are usually thinking about somebody else living there and not thinking what it would be like for them to live there. When Life on Mars becomes possible, Life on Earth will become more prized and only for the rich. The planet with no atmosphere will become the destination for people on the public housing waiting list.

I'm not sure the "billionaires to Mars" private mission will do it in the end. Not that it could happen, but come one deep economic depression and suddenly these billionaires have no money to do it anymore (assuming they won't be saved by the government, which isn't obvious as they aren't banks.) Suddenly Elon and Jeff can have some 50 billion less. Let's hope that doesn't happen (as millions of poorer people will be in dire straits).

It only shows how little effort has been put after the 70's into manned flight de facto. But let's not kid ourselves: the whole manned space mission was an PR offshoot from the real program of building the ICBM arsenal. Russia even had a military space station and experimented shooting an AA cannon in space.

So obviously without an nuclear arms race, it has been slow on this theatre. But hope that something will come out of it. Going to Mars is one for the history books, at least then something from our time could be remembered in a positive light. I fear otherwise that the 21st Century will look quite pale and boring compared to the 20th Century.

Moon first, then Mars.

Or we could try establishing civilization on Earth first. — James Riley

Hear hear!!!

If Mars or anywhere else is to be colonized, it will probably be the poor, disenfranchised and/or insane that will be the first group to go. The rich will stay at home until it's demonstrated to be safer and more comfortable than on Earth (or in their private orbital station above Earth). — _db

If we think in terms of what early colonist did throughout hostory - you're right. It was usually the poor, disinfranchised, or criminals that were the first colonist. However, in the case of colonizing the moon, or mars, you can't get a "cheap-flight" to get there. It takes a lot of money just to get one person into space. It would take a lot more to get a group of would-be colonist on the moon or mars, and I don't believe any rich group is going to send a poor group anywhere to colonize.

It is also not possible now, (or even in the near future), to build a "hotel in orbit" that would have 1-G gravity and safety from radiation. Again, not a place even for rich colonist. Same problem: You can't raise kids there - hense, no colony - just a place for adults to visit.

For longterm stability and independence Mars has much more going for it purely due to the gravity. Most of the first colonists will likely die/suffer a lot, but many (including myself) would happily take the risk. Should we go? Sure! Why the hell not? What good reason is there not to explore and stretch the human story to see what can be achieved? Every adventure opens up new avenues for humanity as a whole.

I still believe I’ll live long enough to see humans land on Mars (or at least attempt to!). — I like sushi

There's a good chance you're right. But, even if we sent, not just one, but a hundred people to Mars and they had enough groceries and water to keep them alive - they would die like the early "Jamestown" colonist. The radiation alone would eventually kill all the people. We could protect against the radiation by building underground - but the gravity of Mars is less than half of what we have on Earth. You can't raise a child in low gravity environments because they would grow up not having the bones and mussels to accomodate space travel like their parents. We don't know if human organs would even develope right under low gravity conditions. (Early research by NASA doesn't look very good there either.)

To survive (long-term) in space you need to to take (Earth's Systems) along with you - that includes air, water, 1-G gravity, radiation protection (equal to fairly near sea-level), and that's just for adults. simply put: "Space travel in not for kids." No kids - no colonies. Space becomes just a place for (rich people) to visit.

The gravity is strong enough. Advances in hydroponics have come a long way. The issue of water is likely to be resolved one way or another as there is water on Mars (and some on The Moon too).

I expect many colonists/explorers would die. Eventually they would find a way to make it work and I think Elon Musk is certainly overly optimistic in terms of how to make the colony self-sustained ... but given that we get there I see no reason why trail and error will not eventually lead to success. His plan is basically to rotate people on and off of Mars. You can pretty much guarantee some people will stay and some will be born there. The ethical question of allowing a baby to grow up on Mars would likely mean they would have to undergo medical changes if they were to come to Earth ... I think in 50 yrs such procedures will be almost second nature given the potential that CRISPR has to offer.

In comparison to colonising Mars CRISPR is FAR FAR FAR BIGGER, even if it lives up to just a miniscule of what many in the field say is on the way.

I expect many colonists/explorers would die. Eventually they would find a way to make it work and I think Elon Musk is certainly overly optimistic in terms of how to make the colony self-sustained ... but given that we get there I see no reason why trail and error will not eventually lead to success. His plan is basically to rotate people on and off of Mars. You can pretty much guarantee some people will stay and some will be born there. The ethical question of allowing a baby to grow up on Mars would likely mean they would have to undergo medical changes if they were to come to Earth ... I think in 50 yrs such procedures will be almost second nature given the potential that CRISPR has to offer.

In comparison to colonising Mars CRISPR is FAR FAR FAR BIGGER, even if it lives up to just a miniscule of what many in the field say is on the way. — I like sushi

You may be right. It seems Mr. Musk is certainly trying very hard to make it happen. We may even be able to "grow" a crop of humans from seeds and would therefore not even need to transport them to Mars. Now there's a theme to run with!

I'm betting on our 'intelligent' machines to "colonize" this solar system and over the next few centuries spread an interplanetary (& L5) network of habitats from Venus to the Kuiper Belt for endless pilgrimages of visitors from Earth. — 180 Proof

Addendum: my lil geek-heart is about to burst with the news https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2021/12/denis-villeneuve-to-adapt-arthur-c.html?m=1 :nerd: :hearts: LLAP.

Then I will run with it. A crop of humans from seeds? Are you serious? — Goldyluck

Very serious! Have you heard about "Louise Brown"? Worlds first test-tube baby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Brown . That was back in 1978. We've come a long way since then. It's not as much "science-fiction" as it was at one time.

I can easily imagine a cargo of human seeds being sent to mars - along with some care-taker robots sent with them to watch over them. (I'm not sure humans didn't get on Earth the same way back about 40-million years ago.) There is no reason to think of space travel, for long distances - such as to other star systems - as being done by adults. They wouldn't live long enough. You have to start with seeds - not adults.

:up:

What do you mean with seeds? Just a fertilized egg in a test tube, so no more... eeeh, well you know.... needs to be done on Mars. Would be a pity. The seed needs to grow though and the only place where it can grow is.... the womb of a woman. For the first four months at least. Any artificial womb that you have seen in movies is fiction. It can't be realized. It takes people to grow people in. That's the reason you will never be able to create life without life, cause you need it in the first place. — Goldyluck

I would suggest a little more research. You might try: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/06/12/artificial-wombs-the-coming-era-of-motherless-births/ .

Haldane predicted that in 2074 70% of all births would stem from artificial wombs, from fertilized egg to baby. A 150 years away from him (1924). Dream on... — Goldyluck

Is it a dream...or is it a nightmare? Depends a lot on your perspective.

The original question was: "Should we try to establish a colony on Mars?". There has been a lot of good discussion. We already have colonies of machines, and even mobile robots, there now. But can we, or should we, place a human-colony there? I'm still interested in what this group has to say out the question.

Some time between how the sun is now and when it becomes a red giant, we should be able to call Mars home. Assuming of course we make the right moves, colonizing missions maybe one of them.

:up: