Violence is categorically unethical. While in some cases its use may be understandable it does not change its nature, namely to force someone to act in accordance to one's own desires through physical force. If that is not unethical, nothing is.
Even in the case of self-defense, its use must not be regarded as a victory, but as a personal defeat. — Tzeentch
Should I not celebrate my self preservation? — john27
... is the will to live a desire? — john27
What if the desires of the other are unethical and my violence stops him from bringing these desires into effective action? — Tobias
Self-preservation is a futile endeavor, and to sacrifice one's spiritual integrity for it is not an act worth celebrating, but such is my view. I'll yield in a situation of self-defense it would not be easy. I'm not sure if I could do it. — Tzeentch
If one believes violence can turn into a right whenever it suits one's desires, then we've entered the typical slippery slope that ends at "might makes right". — Tzeentch
↪Tobias If one believes violence can turn into a right whenever it suits one's desires, then we've entered the typical slippery slope that ends at "might makes right". — Tzeentch
Violence is ethical if it is used to counter unjust violence. I would even say it is ethical when used in the service of justice, for instance, with the death penalty. So an ethical violence would have to be a just violence. — NOS4A2
I mean specifically to protect the innocent from violence, to counter one act of violence with another. — NOS4A2
But I also believe violent reciprocation is often warranted. Sometimes it just isn’t right that someone should get away with certain acts without a comeuppance. — NOS4A2
I don't deny that life is not meant to be kept, but am a little skeptical on how the love of ones life impedes or incapacitate one's spiritual integrity. — john27
However not all situations have that degree of difficulty. the weighing of interests between Proof's life and John's broken nose is a pretty easy one to make. (provided that proof is not threatening to blow up a city or whatever). — Tobias
Why should I refrain from making this calculation and acting accordingly, in the name of some kind of pie in the sky context independent ethical maxim? — Tobias
The issue is that in this example, one is using their own subjective judgement to determine what is merited. By doing so, one must also accept when another uses their subjective judgement to do the same, unless one wishes to argue their judgement is somehow more special than others.
What you end up with is a world in which people constantly use violence against one another, and wonder why others are doing the same to them. That's what we see throughout history. — Tzeentch
What you end up with is a world in which people constantly use violence against one another, and wonder why others are doing the same to them. That's what we see throughout history. — Tzeentch
The point of an ethical principle is that it is context independent.
Like I said to ↪john27, if we need to ask why following ethical principles is even important at all, then this will not be very constructive. An ethical discussion presupposes they matter to us. — Tzeentch
Of course what is up for debate is what these ethical principles are, and I've just shared a rather bold one; violence is categorically unethical. I'm sure you will try to find grounds to disagree, and that is why we're here. — Tzeentch
The principle is justice. With his actions he has proven he isn’t deserving of human life and dignity. — NOS4A2
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