number of days in a week — unenlightened

Luna(cy)! I tell you luna(cy)!

Since there are $\approx$ 365 days in a year, ignoring the $\frac{1}{4}$, a week should have 5 days! (5 goes into 365)

Please don't let it be the work days! :cool:

Divine creation took 6 days.

6 is what they call a perfect number as its proper factors added is 6: 1 + 2 + 3 = 6

Add day 0 and 7 days you have.

Day0: He woke up Moon
Day1: the heavens Tues
Day2: the light Wednes
Day3: the Earth Thurs
Day4: the life Fri
Day5: the Adam Satur
Day6: Return to rest Sun

I am extremely interested in Western esoteric thinking and wishing to discuss it rather than have to listen to a podcast. Using podcasts uses up most of my mobile data allowance and I don't enjoy podcasts. I am more of a reader. I do read in the esoteric traditions, including theosophy and Hermeticism, alchemy, Rosucucianism and the ancient writers. I also try to keep sceptical and critical in the spirit of philosophical enquiry. One writer who I find very useful for his readable writing on Western esoteric ideas is Gary Lachman, who was also the drummer in the pop band, Blondie.

I am not sure how you wish your thread is develop. A couple of people have put entries in about numbers and this may be important in some ways but I see esotericism as being more about ideas, but how they may go back to writers such as Plotinus. But, I am not sure if you are simply wishing this thread to be about the podcast which you introduced or more of a wider consideration of ideas.

:smile:

Western esoteric thinking — Jack Cummins

Esoteric thinking?

Dance & Music!

Rhythm & Ratio!

Mathematical universe. Pythagoreanism?

I just mention that Plato and Newton were interested, and that remnants of the tradition are extant in Freemasonry, Theosophy, and such ubiquitous details as the number of days in a week. — unenlightened

I do read in the esoteric traditions, including theosophy and Hermeticism, alchemy, Rosucucianism and the ancient writers. I also try to keep sceptical and critical in the spirit of philosophical enquiry. — Jack Cummins

I must admit to skepticism about esoteric philosophical approaches. It seems like most phenomena can be explained based on human psychology. It's also true that many practitioners have been charlatans. Many others have developed their ideas without any disciplined process of study. I would be interested in discussing esotericism from a historical perspective. How did it develop? How does it fit with more traditional philosophies? It seems like there is a relationship between esotericism and eastern philosophies. I'd be interested in understanding that better.

Forgot to mention this. There's a neat program on Netflix called "The Midnight Gospel." It's animated, but the discussion is taken from interviews with interesting people with all sorts of esoteric beliefs. Clever, entertaining, and interesting. Very free-wheeling and funny, but respectful of unusual ideas.

Esoteric thinking?

Dance & Music!

Rhythm & Ratio!

Mathematical universe. Pythagoreanism? — Agent Smith

:meh:

...Does this forum have an ignore feature?

No but try this.

@SophistiCat - do you still keep this updated?

I see referenced Ezra Pound and his Guide to Kulture. To which I suggest, if tempted to listen to Pound, think to first fasten yourself to a mast: his thinking a siren song.

...Does this forum have an ignore feature? — emancipate

You just have to summon the appropriate Demiurge and instruct them to cast a shadow of ignorance in the direction required. but I haven't got to that podcast yet, so I have no details.

If you click on the link, each podcast has a reading list and some notes and the odd link.

Part of the significance that I want to look at or for in the thread discussion is how the perennial new-age spiritual revival relates to recent, particularly right wing, history, from The Nazis to to QAnon. And perhaps in this context, a little health warning is in order. Beware the Glamour!

Glamour -- "Mental illusion when intensified by desire, occurring on the astral plane. ... The emanatory astral reactions which each human being initiates ever surround him and through this fog and mist he looks out upon a distorted world." — Google, channelling Alice Bailey

The curiosity of such a fog is that it manifests as clarity - the deeper one is en-fogged, the more certain one is of the clarity of one's vision. Glamour is the source of all fundamentalism.

Since there are ≈
≈
365 days in a year, ignoring the 1/4 day,

a week should have 5 days! (5 goes into 365) — Agent Smith

Why "should" there be a week of any length? But better numerologists than you, also ignoring the 1/4, choose a year of 364 days and then an extra day that is no day. This gives 13 28day months, each comprising exactly 4 7day weeks. And hence the commonplace tradition of contracts and indentures that were for 'a year and a day' (Also the duration of the voyage of The Owl and the Pussycat).

A podcast about the clever ways folk get things wrong.

I am extremely interested that you have read Alice Bailey's book, 'Glamour'. I have read it as well as some other books by her. The argument in her book 'Glamour' is so interesting, especially her observations about politics and the way in which Hitler was influenced by esoteric ideas but got caught up with the lure of glamour.

One other writer who I have read is Benjamin Creme and I managed to get to a lecture by him, his final one before he died. However, some of his ideas are very strange, especially that of the Maitreya being in East London, waiting to emerge to the world. He had been saying this for years as well. It was really after my interest in Creme' s ideas, which were based on the idea of channeling that I came back to reading philosophy as opposed to the direction I had gone into esoteric literature.

Part of the significance that I want to look at or for in the thread discussion is how the perennial new-age spiritual revival relates to recent, particularly right wing, history, from The Nazis to to QAnon. — unenlightened

My guess is it doesn't, not in any real way anyway.

I've listened to the first 3 episodes, and one of the ideas put forward of the real history of the secret history of Western esotericism is that there isn't one unified movement, group of coherent ideas or linear hermeneutics.

I think there's a word for this - can't think of it right now - but my take is that ideas and concepts get appropriated from one generation to the next, without there necessarily being a continuity in meaning.... But they do carry some weight, an aura (because they do hang somewhere in our memories/culture I guess) which can be used as a means to gain some sway.

That's how I look at most of these phenomena. There's some real desire for answers to the situations people find themselves in, to the state of the world, for political influence maybe... which is a feeling more then something that is already clearly defined. And then this gets filled up with a whatever ideas that sound like they might fit in to create a semblance of coherence to the stories people want to tell themselves.

I do appreciate the more scholarly angle he is taking on the topic, he really does a good job. But I don't know how much I can handle of this particular topic, maybe it really doesn't deserve this much attention.

Gary Lachman's books cover a lot of this subject.

A podcast about the clever ways folk get things wrong. — Banno

Or, the ways clever folk see through what's gone wrong.

The crap out on the web or in modern day literature is mostly crap despite the opinions of today's Thoth wannabes that claim that the ancient hidden mysteries are now available to us and are no longer hidden like they were for thousands of years prior but what they don't understand is that the "hidden knowledge" that only the initiates were aloud to know is still very hidden from the average person that's not an initiative because the wisdom and understanding that only the chosen initiates were allowed to receive cannot be found in any book written down anywhere it's received metaphysically

These books like the Golden Dawn and crap like that are no more then fantasy novels because the words written in them are worthless

But in today's society their are boy kids running around with quartz crystals thinking that they're playing Harry Potter it's quite embarrassing to see full grown adults doing this smh.

A podcast about the clever ways folk get things wrong. — Banno

Did you start a podcast @Banno?

I think the charlatanism of a lot of modern western esotericism is related to a western way of thinking (involving capitalism, for instance), projected unto eastern thought. The west interpreting the east in a western way. This doesn't say anything about the actual ideas.

Btw, thanks for the heads up on the podcast. Looking forward to cleverly "getting it wrong" myself. :up:

Why "should" there be a week of any length? — unenlightened

Time is measured in cycles. - daily cycles, monthly, yearly. From what I know of the history of mathematics - has a lot to do with astronomy (agriculture) - our ancestors had a hard time with calculations that didn't line up perfectly as in the month was not a multiple of the week (7 doesn't go into 30/31) and the year wasn't a multiple of the month (28 doesn't go into $365\frac{1}{4}$) and so on. Something to do with irrational numbers (incommensurables).

IF

A week = 10 days
A month = 30 days
A year = 360 days

THEN

3 weeks = 1 month
36 weeks = 1 year
12 months = 1 year

Wouldn't that be great?

Each cycle is a whole number multiple of its subcycle(s).

I do appreciate the more scholarly angle he is taking on the topic, he really does a good job. But I don't know how much I can handle of this particular topic, maybe it really doesn't deserve this much attention. — ChatteringMonkey

A podcast about the clever ways folk get things wrong. — Banno

I would appreciate particularly the sceptical response to Episode 5: Methodologies for the Study of Magic. However the warning about glamour particularly applies to the sceptic if they assume a superior position. One of the aspects of magic discussed is that of its normativity - magic as foreign/illegitimate religion. The high priests of science have cast out all the demons? Then why are we not in heaven already?

I used to be fascinated by the Golden Dawn. Lots of cool stories.

Incidentally, when I was reading around The Golden Bough, back in the psychedelic ages, it was well understood that Frazer, far from making the distinction between magic and religion absolute, merely refrained from explicitly adding Jesus to the long list of lamed Kings sacrificed to the gods, so as not to frighten the horses - leaving the intelligent reader to make the obvious connections. Robert Graves had no such qualms, and his King Jesus is worth a look as is everything I've ever come across of his, even the science fiction.

Just listened to the first episode - very intersting podcast, looking forward to listening to more! There's a lot to sink into here. If anyone hasn't guessed by my name, I'm intrigued by Hermeticism myself.

To quote the podcast:

Featuring the thoughts of some of the greatest philosophical and scientific minds of history
alongside the fevered imaginings of highly strung and perhaps slightly unhinged speculative thinkers.

Sums up pretty nicely why so much shade is being thrown on the subject of esotericism by many. It's a largely misunderstood area of knowledge, which suffers from being corrupted by many iterations of different historical periods of thought.

Magic in itself, to my understanding was once more like a principle rather than a practice. The understanding that the universe operates under certain laws, that there is cause and effect, and that operating these principles in a certain way may lead to a certain desired outcome. But the aspects of philosophical principle and practiced ritual, which followed an entirely different purpose, were eventually merged and resulted in that kind of ritual-magic practiced by Aleister Crowley and alike.

Part of the significance that I want to look at or for in the thread discussion is how the perennial new-age spiritual revival relates to recent, particularly right wing, history, from The Nazis to to QAnon. — unenlightened

I think this in part also explains the popularity of the occult amongst authoritive figures. They bought into the idea and believed it to be a potential way to secure their desires and more power. Who knows how deep Hitler himself dove into the occult? The only thing that is clear are the reasons why he did it. He wanted to exploit any possibility that could lead him to his goals.


I think there is much to be gained from inspecting the long culture of esotericism. But as Hermes himself may put it: It is vital to separate the subtle from the gross. Personally I believe, albeit picturesque, works like the Corpus Hermeticum remain surprisingly accurate in their metaphysical descriptions even with the modern insights of science.

Using podcasts uses up most of my mobile data allowance and I don't enjoy podcasts. — Jack Cummins

Data allowance? Is that still a thing?

One of the aspects of magic discussed is that of its normativity - magic as foreign/illegitimate religion. The high priests of science have cast out all the demons? Then why are we not in heaven already? — unenlightened

I do think he's on to something in identifying "magic" as a prerogative term, where practioners are seen as deviant, yet practtioners of authentic religious rites are seen as holy. Interesting too is that magic isn't denied as folly by its opponents, but is seen as dangerous. That is, magical spells should be avoided because they summon evil spirits, not because they are useless mutterings to powerless entities.

For example, Exodus, chapter 7, Pharoah's magicians replicate God's miracles of creating a snake from a staff and turning water to blood, but, importantly, the magicians powers in chapter 8 are then shown not as powerful as God's. And we read on to learn of the great suffering brought to the Egyptians.

Magic then becomes the way good is distinguished from evil, but it also suggests that any temporary benefit derived from magic will eventually cause great suffering due to its evil origin.

All this seems to be a critical element of Western mythology.