Is this supposed to be an argument? — Garrett Travers
I do not belong to a society, I belong to myself. — Garrett Travers
I am arguing against the notion that ethics is exclusively predicated on such considerations and that individual ethics are not a thing. — Garrett Travers
Now, knowing what is good for oneself is, to be sure, one kind of knowledge; but it is very different from the other kinds. A man who knows and concerns himself with his own interests is regarded as a man of practical wisdom, while men whose concern is with politics are looked upon as busybodies. Euripides' words are in this vein:
"How can I be called "wise", who might have filled a common soldier's place, free from all care, sharing an equal lot?
For those who reach too high and are too active..."
For people seek their own good and think this is what they should do. This opinion has given rise to the view that it is such men who have practical wisdom. And yet, surely one's own good cannot exist without household management nor without a political system. Moreover, the problem of how to manage one's affairs properly needs clarification and remains to be examined. — Nicomachean Ethics, Book Six, translated by Marin Oswald
The Standford essay points to how difficult it is to separate the inquiries. I was hoping for a pithy reference to actual text to illuminate your point. — Paine
Maybe a little Aristotle will demonstrate my dissatisfaction with your categories: — Paine
I don't know if "individual ethics" are a thing or not, But the concept does not seem to apply to at least one classical author. A counter example to consider would be most welcome. — Paine
The Stanford essay clearly distills the gist of what is the predicate for any following ethical deliberations. — Garrett Travers
if this is the case, human good turns out to be activity of soul in accordance with virtue, and if there are more than one virtue, in accordance with the best and most complete." — Garrett Travers
Where? — Paine
So, who notices these virtues? What are they? Courage, Honesty, Loyalty, Fidelity, or What? Where does serving the 'individual' fit in? — Paine
Doesn't giving our life meaning also self serving? — TiredThinker
I wasn't claiming that someone other than an individual could be a virtuous person. — Paine
The question is what those qualities are. — Paine
They are described by Plato and Aristotle as largely exhibited through actions done with and for other people. — Paine
What everyone here seems to be arguing, is that ethics are exclusively the domain of interpersonal relations. Whereas I am and have been arguing, that that isn't true. Ethics is primarily an individual pursuit; how could it not be? You can't be ethical to others if you aren't an ethical person privately — Garrett Travers
What everyone here seems to be arguing, is that ethics are exclusively the domain of interpersonal relations. — Garrett Travers
I haven't been arguing that. The references I have made point to how the good for oneself is interwoven with the good of others. — Paine
What you have been arguing is that moral value is measured primarily by the return of personal investment as outlined by Rand's epistemology. Aristotle just disagreed with her in the passage you cite. — Paine
He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god.
— Paine
He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god.
The Randian vision is one of a God who fell to Earth. — Paine
Again, you cannot be good to others if you are not good yourself. It's not possible. — Garrett Travers
The glaringly bizarre thing about this thread is these people are asserting this whole "ethics is for benefit of others" — Garrett Travers
every single code of ethics developed over the past few thousand years has been predicated first and primarily on the well-being and flourishing of the individual, and to the benefit of others a secondary; — Garrett Travers
Yeah, we are full of Mother Teresas here as everywhere else in societies. Ready to sacrifice their lives for the well affair of others.
Weird thing though that with all of them around us, world societies are still full of shit. — dimosthenis9
That is the case indeed.Anything else is pure hypocrisy. And hypocrisy is the Lord of our times. — dimosthenis9
The Stoic ethical framework is almost exclusively predicated upon individual behavior. — Garrett Travers
Yes, behavior. Our behavior involves others, necessarily. Behavior in accordance with nature--the rational selection of things according to nature--according to the Stoics, includes the due consideration of the effect of conduct on other beings, which are a part of nature. — Ciceronianus
I'm not arguing that interpersonal ethics aren't to be considered. It is the people in this forum that are arguing that ethics is only the domain of interpersonal relations. I am arguing that both are encompassed by ethics, and that ethics is first and foremost an individual pursuit, as the Stoics, one school among many, also contend. — Garrett Travers
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