not having a real Russian tradwife like another particular member presumably does — The Opposite
Upon initially going through this thread I felt like insulting those I believe to be backing Putin [...] however, this ultimately gets no one nowhere. — The Opposite
This kind of history is totally absent from almost any mainstream discussion on this topic, the latter of which is slavishly regurgitated by people on this forum, among others. — StreetlightX
Because the issue is framed as "Russia bad", "NATO good". That's not real life. I always think it's a good exercise to think "how would I think if I were Russian, or Ukrainian, etc.?"
That's not done nearly enough in Western media, imo. — Manuel
But consider this, would the US want Mexico to become a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? This is a very rough equivalent of NATO for China and Russia. — Manuel
I think if diplomacy was considered more seriously, we needn't have gotten here. — Manuel
The Pentagon doesn't control the Western media. Beware of click bait — frank
It's not equivalent because the US is a superpower. Russia is not. — frank
I don't think so. Putin is not the victim here. If you need to believe he is for some reason, so be it. — frank
, I do think that Ukraine - and any country really - has a right to security, in case something goes wrong with Russia. If I were Ukrainian, I would like to know my country will be ready for defense, in case anything arises, which might happen, given the current tensions. — Manuel
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday accused the West of threatening the health of the nation's economy by causing "panic" over the threat of a Russian invasion. "We don't need this panic," Zelensky said during a press conference in Kyiv, according to BBC News. "There are signals even from respected leaders of states, they just say that tomorrow there will be war. This is panic — how much does it cost for our state?" Zelensky said the Western media's portrayal of the situation gives the impression of "tanks in the streets of Kyiv." He emphasized that part of Ukraine is already occupied by Russia, while contending that Russia poses a constant threat to his country that isn't necessarily higher at present.
As far as I can see this is just your prejudice about Russian women. — jamalrob
Actually, Russia can do whatever it wants with it's tanks inside it's own borders. But usually camping over 100 000 men on the border of another country is extremely rare and extremely suspicious. Just like if your neighbor would come and stand on his side next to your backyard armed with a shotgun staring at you and your house. Not typical behavior, but the neighbor can argue that he has the right to do that...Either this, or Russia has every right to put tanks on its borders with the Ukraine. — baker
In 2014 the information campaign succeeded and went through well. To tell the truth, if Putin hadn't admitted that "the little green men" were Russian paratroops, but had insisted that they were "Crimean citizen volunteers who had taken up arms" as was the first Russian reply, some idiots would still insist on them not being Russian soldiers. I think this time people are more ready for this. But still, a lot of people will be fooled by total fabrications and outright lies.Russia's covert online ops teams are also active in propogating false narratives about Western democracies through social media, and amplifying memes like the likely imminent collapse of American democracy and 'America the real aggressor' and so on, which people echo.
Here's a (rather reassuring) analysis in today's NYT by journo with long experience in covering Putin. — Wayfarer
Well, what do you call then all those times that the US has wanted to "reset" the relations? Or how the US helped Boris Jeltsin when he asked for help (for instance in the elections). Just like with China, the US has had a lot of hopes for Russia, hope it would democratize and become more like the West, hopes that had then turned out to be a wishful thinking. And only then things turn sour.The US _wants_ to be on enemy terms with Russia, it accepts no other way of relating to it. — baker
It was actually shown to be a Russian BUK-M1 missile. They used an equivalent missile given by the Finnish armed forces (as Finland had the same system) and found that the blast marks and the shrapnel were similar. And even found parts of the missile matching the Russian missile. The missile is produced by Almaz-Antey in Russia. The Dutch did they work well.Yeah I wonder if Lockheed Martin built the missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. — Wayfarer
Russia could have prevented NATO far more successfully by simply NOT DOING ANYTHING AGGRESSIVE. — ssu
Exactly. Ukrainian NATO membership was like the potential EU membership of Turkey. And if it wasn't for the invasion into Ukraine, the situation would be totally different. Yet Putin making demands NATO simply couldn't meet is what makes it so sinister. In fact, Russia's demands go against Article 10 of NATO, that goes by the following:But as all sides knew even before this brouhaha started, Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO any time soon, if ever. — SophistiCat
Article 10
The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to this Treaty. Any State so invited may become a Party to the Treaty by depositing its instrument of accession with the Government of the United States of America. The Government of the United States of America will inform each of the Parties of the deposit of each such instrument of accession.
And for that reason both Sweden and Finland cannot write off the possibility, however small, that Russia could stoke a problem in either in the Swedish island of Gotland or the in the Finnish Åland Islands.A country that is continually being bled by its hybrid war with Russia, including a low-intensity armed conflict on a large part of its territory, has no chance of being admitted to NATO or to EU. — SophistiCat
The idea that Putin put over 100 000 Russian soldiers on the border of Ukraine just to get attention and have a conversation with Biden doesn't make any sense. But who knows what Presidents-for-life think.Is he just doing it to keep the West on its toes, as some say? But this is too dangerous and too costly an adventure for such a modest payout. And what would be his end-game? After all these hysterics and military escalation he can't just back down or settle on a reasonable compromise. He is spoiling for a fight. This is the scariest aspect of the whole thing. — SophistiCat
The US is not going to fight, that is totally clear. After all, the war is already been fought (which many here seem to forget).If he guesses that the US, post pandemic, has zero will to fight a war, he's right. So this is his opportunity. — frank
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