Is it meaningful to talk about intentions, beliefs and desires - which I find generally to be constitutive of having a consciousness - w.r.t to the unconsciousness? For it at least seems that part of what it means to have these intentions, beliefs and desires is that one directly realizes them. — Marty
I mean, Hering Illusions is also another example of that. So is the Mach Effect or whatever. But these aren't desires, intentions or beliefs. — Marty
Is it meaningful to talk about intentions, beliefs and desires - which I find generally to be constitutive of having a consciousness - w.r.t to the unconsciousness? For it at least seems that part of what it means to have these intentions, beliefs and desires is that one directly realizes them.
The person who has a neurotic issues such as undesirable compulsions, may not understand why they are compelled to act the way they act. — Cavacava
So they don't want to teach [Jung] at lower levels. — ernestm
I think Libet's experiment measured muscle memories ability react instinctively prior to thought, like the way muscles react instinctively for a person skiing moguls. — Cavacava
I think that such things as visual illusions and unconscious desires exist along a continuum.
But what I'm asking is how is it meaningful to say that they have these, and why is the unconscious and conscious a "continuum" anymore than a body and mind is a "continuum?" — Marty
But any way, even if there is a relationship between the unconscious, this doesn't mean it has desires, intentions, and beliefs. — Marty
Stuff you don't have to think about, and stuff you have no access to is not 'the' unconscious of Freud. He is talking about a division of awareness — unenlightened
the ego being the only part of which that the self can be aware, — ernestm
So you are saying it is aware, but the self is not self aware of the awareness? lol — ernestm
I think there has been some confusion in this thread between non-conscious and unconscious. — unenlightened
I muddied the waters, perhaps, by trying to broaden the notion of the unconscious to include what you have referred to as the 'non-conscious' elements of perception. The reason for that is that I think they're closely related - that Freud's definition is simply one aspect of a much larger subject, which is the influence or presence of unconscious or non-conscious factors in day to day awareness. — Wayfarer
If this follows it seems like beliefs, intentions, and desires are conscious processes only. But then when I consider things like the Libet Experiments - in which attempted to disprove free-will by postulating that brain-states fire before our actions in so far as we're aware of them - then how I generally approach this problem is by postulating that unconscious activities predominantly make most of our actions in the sense that they're the ones to motivate "our" desires, and that in accordance with that fact, that we are our unconscious motives and desires. So thus, the terminus of freedom does not end with consciousness, but unconsciousness. And as being my unconscious desires, I'm free. — Marty
Interesting language here; id is 'it' as distinct/opposed from/to ego 'I'. That is to say that the unconscious is other than myself - the self I am conscious of.
I want to lose weight, but it wants to eat. I want to be calm and reasonable, but it wants to bite babies... Have you ever found yourself in an internal conflict? (This is no form of argument, but an appeal to relate talk to experience.)
I think there has been some confusion in this thread between non-conscious and unconscious. Stuff you don't have to think about, and stuff you have no access to is not 'the' unconscious of Freud. He is talking about a division of awareness. 'It' is a foreigner disrupting your life and frustrating your ambitions. 'It' is the inner arsehole. — unenlightened
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