(why we shouldn't have) Android Spouses

ToothyMaw

I had a discussion with a friend of mine about the potential for android spouses created solely for the purpose of appeasing their human counterpart’s desire for romance/companionship. Naturally, there are a number of issues that spring up during such discussions, and I will do my best to approach the subject with tact.

My friend, who is surprisingly insightful for someone with so little education, told me he would create an android that would exist purely for the purposes of being his wife if he had the means.

I told him that creating an android capable of being an adequate spouse purely to satisfy his desires for a (good? perfect?) wife sounded like slavery to me, because she would have to be self-aware/conscious/sentient - and what if she wanted to learn to tap-dance? Or what if she thought he was a disgusting pig and wanted nothing to do with him?

He then replied that he would program the android to want to satisfy his needs for companionship; romance would be in line with her nature.

I explained to him it would still be him compelling her to interact with him, even if just by engineering her nature; she would have no choice in the matter. Furthermore, why would, or should, she want him, given any measure of freedom?

To this he replied that it would be okay to engineer her nature because said android wife wouldn’t have a soul and thus no free will to be robbed of; she wasn’t born.

In reply to this I utilized the replacement argument: I asked him at what point he would lose his soul, if at all, if each part of his body and brain were individually replaced with circuitry and synthetic materials (his memory and cognitive functions would remain the same throughout the replacement), a process inherently similar to the process of creating an android.

He said that he would still have his soul, so I pointed out that it was then possible for an unborn synthetic person to have a soul, and thus free will, as retaining his soul despite being made into an android would demonstrate.

He claimed he would be retaining his soul from birth; the android still wasn’t born and thus wouldn't have one, even if it were theoretically possible. I then asked what is so notably different about being conceived organically from being assembled (which could be argued to also be organic, in a way) such that one only has a soul from being conceived organically.

He didn’t really have a reply to that and told me not to crap on his good ideas.

He could, of course, have said: "because god says only humans can have souls", but he didn't, to his credit.

Sorry if this ground has already been covered elsewhere, but it's fresh for me (except I vaguely remember reading the replacement argument applied to the issue of androids' souls somewhere).

pfirefry

↪ToothyMaw

Isn't it possible for an android to appease their human counterpart’s desire for romance/companionship without being conscious? A Korean man married a pillow once. The pillow didn't seem to be self-aware.

ToothyMaw

↪pfirefry

Yes, why don't we all marry pillows.

Really, though, it would have to be a pretty good simulation of a person to be an adequate spouse, I think. I mean, can a pillow, or even a non-conscious android, tickle or be tickled? Could either sustain interesting conversations? Can your hopes and ambitions align with a lifeless chunk of cotton/plastic/metal? I think not.

pfirefry

↪ToothyMaw

Isn’t it true that the same can be said about auto-pilots in self driving cars? If one day Uber replaced all drivers with auto-pilots, you might be upset because you wouldn’t be able to have an interesting conversation with them and wouldn’t get pleasure from tipping them. But that day could still happen. There are always trade-offs. If someone is thinking about an android wife, they must be open to certain trade-offs, e.g. tickling or having conversations. If a certain android doesn’t meet your demands, it doesn’t mean that it couldn’t exist and serve other’s needs. That’s something to be acknowledged.

I’m just talking about this because otherwise the topic becomes very generic: Can a robot have a soul? Does a robot that gained consciousness have the same rights as a human?

ToothyMaw

Isn’t it true that the same can be said about auto-pilots in self driving cars? If one day Uber replaced all drivers with auto-pilots, you might be upset because you wouldn’t be able to have an interesting conversation with them and wouldn’t get pleasure from tipping them. — pfirefry

I am no authority on relationships or happiness science, but an auto-pilot is not to an actual driver what a pillow or non-conscious android is to a human spouse, imo. But if someone is willing to take that tradeoff, I wouldn't judge them.

I should amend the name of the thread to "(why we shouldn't have) Self-Aware Android Spouses".

Paine

My wife would kill me if I got an android spouse. She would merely turn me out on to the street if I committed adultery.

Ansiktsburk

From an egalitarian pow it sounds rather attractive. Noone marries into money, the droids would of course be doled out attractive according to measurable service done for society, in the package with housing, vehicle, and other fruits of ones labor. Kids born sent to common kindergarten as fast as possible to guarantee fair race.

D2OTSSUMMERBUG

I explained to him it would still be him compelling her to interact with him, even if just by engineering her nature; she would have no choice in the matter. Furthermore, why would, or should, she want him, given any measure of freedom? — ToothyMaw

Why would, or should, we humans want a spouse? Do we really have control over our sexual desire (though we may control our behavior caused by the desire), or is it just some engineering of nature in our genes to make us breedable? If thought & behavior manipulation is such a taboo, we shouldn't even see giving birth or education as moral in the first place.

Agent Smith

The OP's friend stands for those people who have a specific idea of what spouses should be like (submissive, loves you no matter what, etc.) I believe the latter characteristic (loves you no matter what) is a trait we all look for in a partner and so your friend, OP, isn't saying anything which either a male or a female wouldn't have said.

Nevertheless, there's the issue of autonomy. The description of a spouse your friend gives resembles that of a slave. That's the downside, but then the million dollar question is, at the end of the day, are we not looking for slaves after all?

BC

God. Android spouses -- as if keeping the batteries in the mouse, bicycle lights, iPod, iPad, iPhone, smoke alarm, vibrating dildo, pacemaker, the car, and everything else wasn't trouble enough!

T Clark

God. Android spouses -- as if keeping the batteries in the mouse, bicycle lights, iPod, iPad, iPhone, smoke alarm, vibrating dildo, pacemaker, the car, and everything else wasn't trouble enough! — Bitter Crank

Apparently there are devices you can put in roadways to charge electric vehicles while they are moving. Just have one of those installed in your house.

god must be atheist

The android wife can satisfy her husbands needs -- and an android husband his wife's needs -- without all the trimmings that makes the android conscious.

It takes amazingly little of human-like behaviour to fake consciousness.

Several people I have come in contact with in my life have clearly demonstrated that beyond any doubt.

god must be atheist

If the android has free will, like it is said in the opening paragraph, then its will still can be subjected by subordination to its creator's will. In our own example God does it with horrible threats, sweet promises. In your friend's example, the creator can program the free will of the android.

In either case, "freedom of will" is an illusion. Even if you believe that will is free, free to disobey the creator's commands. NOBODY DISOBEYS THE CREATOR'S COMMANDS. What people disobey are the commands allegedly said by alleged creators as stated by still others.

My god... I mean, my creator is a one-billion year long evolutionary process. I never cross the natural laws that my creator has set for me: I laugh when I find something funny, I cry when I am hurt or moved by sentimental emotions; I eat when I am hungry, I drink when I am thirsty, I have a natural curiosity, I think and figure things out, I meet my challenges, I love my wife and children, I obey those rules of society which I deem worthy of obeying, I work, I pay my taxes, I eliminate processed post-metabolic excesses, and I get turned on by watching Japanese porn in which girls vomit into each other's mouths.

Paine

↪Bitter Crank

Especially when you have to ship device overseas for repairs.

Real Gone Cat

Can an android marry an android? Can they get divorced? That would mean alimony for all eternity!

Oh my god, that's my nightmare!

Hanover

I wonder if women sit around and think about androids satisfying their basic emotional and sexual needs. It sure feels like a male thing to talk about.

ArguingWAristotleTiff

I wonder if women sit around and think about androids satisfying their basic emotional and sexual needs. — Hanover

No, we don't. :rofl:

ArguingWAristotleTiff

It sure feels like a male thing to talk about. — Hanover

Not just a "male" thing to talk about but one that screams lacking game.

Hanover

Not just a "male" thing to talk about but one that screams lacking game. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

But I respect the man who realizes his limitations and builds himself his own special lady out of odds and ends around the garage.

ArguingWAristotleTiff

But I respect the man who realizes his limitations and builds himself his own special lady out of odds and ends around the garage. — Hanover

Yes, but don't inflatables already serve that purpose without the bulk?
I mean how many android women can you get in closet?

god must be atheist

Inflation is the key element here. Not just of the doll.

One woman I dated used to plant cucumbers in her garden. She had an English garden, with all kinds of plants, including the aforementioned cucumbers, which were English cucumbers, because the lady was also English.

She told me she never harvested the cucumbers. I asked her why she then grew them. She said she liked to see them grow.

In one sense the inflation or rigid largeness IS a simplified android, which satisfies women's physical needs, and thereby emotional needs too, in the sense that women would go bonkers without them.

Watch the appropriate episode from Seinfeld. Nobody is free from desire... nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

CallMeDirac

This isn't necessarily against android spouses, but against conscious android spouses.

If they remain emotionless, consciousless, machines, then there is no reason one shouldn't be able to "enslave" one. They would be no worse off than a toaster or computer.

If the android were to be conscious then there is an entirely different debate to be had.

Judaka

↪ToothyMaw

Humans are not merely conscious, we are specifically humans, really specifically. I would be shocked if we don't see some kind of android or genetically engineered wife in the future. To compare either to a human is like comparing a wolf or wild animal to a dog. The dog is genetically engineered to serve humans, that's what it wants to do. Similarly, you can't compare a human to a dog, that's why owning a dog is fine but slavery is immoral. Or why something like Seaworld is immoral but dog shows are fine.

Slavery in humans is so bad because we need to threaten, harm, imprison and force the human to be a slave. If an android wife was made, it would be to a human, what a dog is to a wolf, at worst, but theoretically, it could go well beyond even that. They could be sentient, self-aware and conscious but would lack human creativity, competitiveness, emotion and ambition.

(why we shouldn't have) Android Spouses

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