It is undoubtedly absurd to talk about 'before," or to use any temporal language to describe the period (another temporal term) before God created time and space. After all, there is no time, so how can we talk about a time before time existed? — Raymond Rider
First, notice what I said in the first sentence: "before God created time and space." It is undoubtedly absurd to talk about 'before," or to use any temporal language to describe the period (another temporal term) before God created time and space. After all, there is no time, so how can we talk about a time before time existed? — Raymond Rider
This brings about the "second time problem." If time has always existed, then why did God create everything else when He did? Why did He choose that specific point in time to create the universe? — Raymond Rider
The word "before" in this phrase is probably a metaphor drawn from our experience with space-time, and our lack of experience with infinity & eternity. Some scientists also use the same analogy of "before" the Big Bang in their speculations on Multiverses, Many Worlds, and Instant Inflation. We also have no experience with Zero, but we find the notion of nothingness (null) to be useful in Logic and Mathematics.First, notice what I said in the first sentence: "before God created time and space." It is undoubtedly absurd to talk about 'before," or to use any temporal language to describe the period (another temporal term) before God created time and space. — Raymond Rider
The "time before time" problem is also caused by taking metaphors literally. The God of the Torah was sometimes portrayed as a humanoid deity in a parallel universe above the clouds. But other models insist that God is omnipresent & eternal, hence outside the limits of space & time.If time has always existed, then why did God create everything else when He did? Why did He choose that specific point in time to create the universe? — Raymond Rider
This is a human language problem, not a theological one. Language paradoxes don't limit God's abilities. — T Clark
I cannot think of a way for the theist to solve this problem. — Raymond Rider
Gods have no explanatory power. — Tom Storm
You are one of the most moderate atheists here on the forum. You don't share the rabid obsession of some. But your lack of imagination limits your understanding. — T Clark
I don't think an experience of a god - even if I grant that the experience is genuine - counts as an explanation of anything God is said to have done or wants from humans. The experience explains the experience and may well count as proof of God by the believer, but it does not provide an elucidation of anything further. — Tom Storm
I think there are a lot of fake atheists on this forum. I have come across this often. The theistic arguments are so vacuous because they ultimately rely on the acceptance of the supernatural.
There is no evidence at all for anything beyond naturalism. — universeness
Every time I watch online debates between theists and atheists, I see the theists defeated badly. — universeness
I spend more of my time on discussion forums such as Quora, where there seems to be a much more enlightened membership — universeness
If I'm not mistaken, I see an additional problem for theism in your solution to the first time problem. Traditional theism, I think, asserts that God is prior to everything else.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Given the above quote, I'm skeptical about traditional theism accepting that time is co-eternal with God (even if God says so!) — ucarr
It is undoubtedly absurd to talk about 'before," or to use any temporal language to describe the period (another temporal term) before God created time and space. After all, there is no time, so how can we talk about a time before time existed? — Raymond Rider
We can say that God has always willed that time existed in order to maintain God's ontological priority, as time would be contingent on God's will. — Raymond Rider
Then what's the evidence? A personal experience? God talking to us in our mind? What's your measure of evidence? Someone saying he/she has seen them? — EugeneW
Isn't that the same? If the evidence is not reliable, is it good evidence then? — EugeneW
it's a matter then of assessing how convincing the evidence is. — Tom Storm
Can anyone think of a solution out of the "second time problem?" — Raymond Rider
I think the question for atheism is not the lack of evidence for god/s so much as the reliability of the evidence provided. — Tom Storm
Unfortunately personal accounts of religious experience offer very little to others who haven't had this experience and/or doubt its veracity. — Tom Storm
Religious experiences also cancel each other out - the Muslim, the Christian, the Hindu all have 'unique' experiences that to them 'prove' the authenticity of their version of god/s and how we should to live. — Tom Storm
The claim 'there is no evidence for god' is false. — Tom Storm
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