What is intelligence? A.K.A. The definition of intelligence

Average

We might define height as the distance from the top to the bottom or vice versa. If we were talking about a statue for example we would measure the distance from the bottom of the statue to it's highest heights. When measuring height in humans this would mean that we measure the distance from the top of someone's head to the bottom of someone's feet or vice versa. What exactly should we measure in the case of intelligence? What is the best way of measuring someone's intelligence? In other words, how do we know if someone is a mental midget or a genius? Finally, how should we define the very thing that we are attempting to measure? I will make an effort to be as polite as possible to anyone who is courageous enough to discuss this subject with me and I hope that reciprocity is a part of that process. Please keep in mind that I might not be as bright as you and it may be difficult for me to follow your arguments. Any patience on your part will be appreciated.

Tom Storm

In other words, how do we know if someone is a mental midget or a genius? — Average

There's plenty on how this is currently understood if you consult google.

My initial response would be shifting the question from 'how do we know if someone' to 'what is a genius' and 'what is a mental midget'. I'm assuming you seek to differentiate between those people who are unlearned from those with intellectual disabilities?

One thing I have noticed is any one who tells you they have a prodigious IQ of 135 (or whatever) is generally pretty thick.

Average

↪Tom Storm

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion. You seem to think that I might benefit from a google search but I suspect that I'd get bogged down in a lot of useless irrelevant information.

Tom Storm

I suspect that I'd get bogged down in a lot of useless irrelevant information. — Average

Here too I'm afraid. :wink:

Average

My initial response would be shifting the question from 'how do we know if someone' to 'what is a genius' and 'what is a mental midget'. I'm assuming you seek to differentiate between those people who are unlearned from those with intellectual disabilities? — Tom Storm

I have a lot of sympathy for people with cognitive disabilities and I have no intention of slandering them. shifting the question is unnecessary because the question "What is a genius?" is almost identical to the question "what is intelligence?". I suspect that a genius would be one with a great deal intelligence but in order to recognize a genius I think that we would first need to know what intelligence is.

Average

Here too I'm afraid. — Tom Storm

lol

Tom Storm

↪Average

Intelligence is a question that many consider controversial. Maybe because it is a subject generally understood and explored through psychologists who are widely hated.

question is unnecessary because the question "What is a genius?" is almost identical to the question "what is intelligence? — Average

No it's not. Shifting the question was suggested because you already (possibly unwittingly) used a common 'slander' for intellectual disability with the term 'mental midget'. "Thick" the word I used earlier is another. The point I was making is that the question 'who' may not be as informative as 'what'. That's the shift I recommended.

A genius may have a high intelligence, but the two things different. For my money a genius is generally someone who possesses exceptional skill or intelligence that they are able to put into practice in some endeavor. There are plenty of people with very high IQ's who are working in banal jobs.

Average

The point I was making is that the question 'who' may not be as informative as 'what'. That's the shift I recommended. — Tom Storm

Can you provide some more clarification and elaboration because I don't want this discussion to devolve into something primitive.

Tom Storm

↪Average

What do you mean by something primitive?

You asked:

the best way of measuring someone's intelligence — Average

Who

I suggested:

'what is a genius' and 'what is a mental midget' — Tom Storm

What

All I was saying is that the concept needs to be understood or elucidated before we do the measuring. It's a small point and, possibly, the moment is passed...

Average

(possibly unwittingly) — Tom Storm

I was not trying to slander anyone with disabilities. I am actually inspired by people with disabilities when they persevere in spite of the adversity fortune saw fit to impose upon them.

Average

All I was saying is that the concept needs to be understood or elucidated before we do the measuring. — Tom Storm

I couldn't agree more.

Average

What do you mean by something primitive? — Tom Storm

Sometimes people insult each other directly and indirectly instead of examining perspectives.

Tom Storm

↪Average

I wasn't trying to insult you and I am sorry if that's how I came across.

I work in the area of mental health, suicidality and substance misuse so I am mindful of terminology.

Average

I work in the area of mental health, suicidality and substance misuse so I am mindful of terminology. — Tom Storm

That makes sense. I'm sorry if I'm not using the most appropriate language possible.

Tom Storm

↪Average

You were fine and I was just teasing out the nuances of 'mental midget'. I guess the conventional wisdom is that people are divided into low IQ (at some point it is a disability) and high IQ (at some point it is genius level).

I know from working with people who have intellectual disabilities that they are often frustrated and angered by their inability to understand or accomplish tasks and activities the rest of the community takes for granted.

Average

I guess the conventional wisdom is that people are divided into low IQ (at some point it is a disability) and high IQ (at some point it is genius level). — Tom Storm

If I'm not mistaken IQ is like inches or meters, A kind of unit that we use to measure something. We wouldn't say that inches are height but instead we would say that we use inches to measure height. it might be true that IQ is used to measure intelligence but intelligence would still be something else entirely. I'm trying to figure out what that "something else entirely" actually is.

Tom Storm

I'm trying to figure out what that "something else entirely" actually is. — Average

Yes, that's a key question many people come to ask.

Fooloso4

What exactly should we measure in the case of intelligence? — Average

The ability to complete some task without being taught to do so,or solve a problem, or assess a situation and respond in an appropriate way (phronesis).

Average

The ability to complete some task without being taught to do so,or solve a problem, or assess a situation and respond in an appropriate way (phronesis). — Fooloso4

Would you mind providing examples?

Fooloso4

↪Average

The ability to troubleshoot and fix a machine.The ability to assess a social or interpersonal situation and act accordingly. Acting prudentially to achieve a good outcome.

Average

The ability to troubleshoot and fix a machine.The ability to assess a social or interpersonal situation and act accordingly. Acting prudentially to achieve a good outcome. — Fooloso4

I admit that your answer is intriguing but it's a bit vague and ambiguous. What exactly does "act accordingly" mean? Is "act accordingly" any different from "respond in an appropriate way"? How would you define a "good outcome"?

Down The Rabbit Hole

↪Average

There are a multitude of measures of intelligence; which is why IQ tests are not dispositive.

One of my favourite measures would be to the effect of "the ability to work things out".

Average

There are a multitude of measures of intelligence — Down The Rabbit Hole

But what is intelligence?

Average

One of my favourite measures would be to the effect of "the ability to work things out". — Down The Rabbit Hole

Is this your definition of intelligence?

Fooloso4

↪Average

Acting accordingly is to act in such a way that is likely lead to a good outcome. A good outcome is one that is intended. In any given the ability to assess what a good outcome is is also a measure of intelligence. One must anticipate the consequences of different choices and actions as well as what is good.

Average

A good outcome is one that is intended. — Fooloso4

What if someone intended to produce a bad outcome?

Down The Rabbit Hole

↪Average

But what is intelligence? — Average

Words have many definitions. This is why statutes have a definition section (at least here in Blighty).

Is this your definition of intelligence? — Average

Effectively. This is more or less what IQ tests do; test our "ability to work things out".

Fooloso4

↪Average

If someone intended to produce a bad outcome for herself that would not be intelligent. A bad outcome for an enemy might be a different story, although that bad outcome might be a good outcome for the one who intends it.

Average

ability to work things out — Down The Rabbit Hole

Would you mind explaining to me what you mean by "work things out"?

Average

If someone intended to produce a bad outcome for herself that would not be intelligent. — Fooloso4

According to your definition of a "good outcome" there could never be a case of someone intending to produce a bad outcome for themselves because any outcome that is intended is by definition a "good outcome".

Down The Rabbit Hole

↪Average

Would you mind explaining to me what you mean by "work things out"? — Average

Determine the correct answer.

What is intelligence? A.K.A. The definition of intelligence

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