So, what say you, Philosophers? Will you join me in this? — Garrett Travers
You ok? — Tom Storm
Can you summarize your idea in less apocalyptic language in a few dot points? — Tom Storm
I understand from this you want to set out key philosophic principles to help save the world from a coming crisis? — Tom Storm
is to create societies predicated on the primacy of individual human consciousness. — Garrett Travers
is to create societies predicated on the primacy of individual human consciousness. — Garrett Travers
This does not match your clarion call for everyone to unite against madmen like Putin. Division into ever smaller communities (Epicurian or otherwise) would allow a F***wit like Putin to easily take over the planet. — universeness
United we stand, divided we fall This has been true since we came out of the wild. — universeness
We're now on a knife's edge and there are many directions in which this precarity could lead us. — Garrett Travers
human plague of cannibals — bert1
I rather like Garrett.
Unfortunately I'm vaguely hoping we accidentally wipe ourselves out in some way that I can survive and father the next inbred human plague of cannibals and necrophiliacs. That's still a kind of love. Sorry Garrett. — bert1
Which knife edge of precocity are you most concerned about? Nuclear annihilation? Conventional world war? Global overheating? The Black Plague (or its equivalent)? Severe world-wide depression? Social collapse? Civil war? — Bitter Crank
I wish there was a Grand Solution we could all get behind, but if wishes were gold bullion, we would all be rich. — Bitter Crank
My theory is that as soon as the electricity grid goes down, the batteries fail, and they've used up all the drugs and booze, they will turn to cannibalism. Of course they will. No internet, no social media, no streaming services, no phones, no same-day delivery! The people will be so angry, upset, and frustrated there will be no sufficient relief other than grabbing some live bodies and throwing them onto the barbecue. Necrophilia before or after dinner?
So Putin could crash our systems and Voila! — Bitter Crank
If we could rid the world of capitalism we would achieve 90% of what you are asking for, IMHO. — Photios
democratic systems — bert1
systemic faults — bert1
enforce ecological policy — bert1
I like the EU as a project. Moving in the right direction. Gradual democratic Union of different states. UK took itself out because of Rupert Murdoch gaining undue influence in the UK. — bert1
Nothing to rethink, brother. Socialism is our only hope. We must unite. — Photios
In truth, I must decline. What we are facing is nothing short of the regular run-of-the-mill human response. Entitlement and power electing to destroy those who oppose it, or are perceived to oppose it. We have recently seen it in Canada, as our Prime minister (now mostly referred to as "that Mother-fucker") enacted the emergency measures act and had his cronies violently subdue a peaceful protest (see video with mounted RCMP trampling a senior with a walker, police beating a reporter with batons after pepper spraying her, and police beating a youth with their rifle butts) Exceptionally embarrassing, and enraging, for Canadians to bear witness to. After which, bank accounts of regular citizens that donated to this peaceful protest had their financial accounts frozen by the government, for "donating to domestic terrorism". The only violence committed during this protest was by the the government against it's own citizens. Nothing to be proud of there, not for any of us in Canada. Yet a shining example of what an entitled ass in power is willing to do to not have his authority questioned. Again, offensively human, and repeatedly seen throughout history.
Russia invades the Ukraine. Unfortunate, but predictable. Certainly not the first such invasion, and not the last. Philosophers will not solve this. Mass extinction...might, but we won't be there to see it. — Book273
Socialism is our only hope. We must unite. — Photios
In my opinion, these are the best, correct, and most hopeful words on this thread. — universeness
Got any historical examples of non-violatory socialism? — Garrett Travers
Every global national health service in existence. — universeness
Every welfare state system in existence. — universeness
Every free education system in existence — universeness
Every revolt against slavery and oppression, including ones before Epicurus and the Greeks. — universeness
Every fight against the divine right of Kings. — universeness
The entire trade union movement. — universeness
Democracy — universeness
Freedom of speech and freedom of protest. — universeness
Almost every significant document relating to human rights/bill of rights/Magna Carta etc — universeness
I think your understanding of socialism is quite limited. — universeness
Paid for by money extored from individual laborers by a government who kills people every day. — Garrett Travers
And fuck the Magna Carta... ?? — Garrett Travers
And I think you've never heard it in your entire life. You don't anything about it from even a basic level. — Garrett Travers
What utter nonsense! So in your head, a benevolent, national health service, free to all at the point of delivery was created by abusing a group of humans you pull out the air and call 'individual laborers' and the abuse of this group enabled a murderous government to create this benevolent medical care for all its participants. This is the logic you offer?? — universeness
I hold most of the rest of your response above in a similar vein. — universeness
Ok, if you want to, even though your American constitution was strongly influenced by it along with the declaration of Arbroath. Anyway, I am not too interested in your choice of what you want to F***. — universeness
If a governments which murder people every day steal money from laborers to fund programs, that's not benevolent. I didn't pull anything out of the air except your head. This is exactly the logic I offer you. Your governments are evil, and always have been — Garrett Travers
Which is to say, you can't argue with it. — Garrett Travers
I don't really care, because the government has never fully abided by it. That's because governments are predicated on force, and nothing else. — Garrett Travers
Most capitalists do but very few socialists do. — universeness
Most governments dont murder those they represent — universeness
I am arguing with it I am suggesting it was nonsense. I have just given you some further reasons above. — universeness
Then work towards making future governments better and demand that their authority comes from the democratic consent of the majority of those they represent. — universeness
Demand they fully abide by the content of humanist constitutions (if you don't like the label socialist, then let's use the label humanist) — universeness
Demand change not by unhelpfully calling all politics and politicians evil but by demanding better politics and better politicians. Instead of trying to break the human race into tiny cooperatives which you claim will be able to live in harmony with each other based on the Epicurean commune model and such as your written guidelines on ethics, encourage all humans to unite as one species on one planet. No nations, no races (except the human race), no currencies. This has much more chance of success compared to your enormous collection of tiny cooperatives. — universeness
You keep complaining about governmental force Garret but you also state that you will protect your envisaged communities through the use of force if need be. Governments justify their use of force. Individuals justify their use of force. At the level of force, you offer nothing new! — universeness
I like Epicurus and Democritus as I have already stated. I accept Epicurus as a socialist but certainly not the first one or as the creator of such. — universeness
I am not claiming that this wikipedia article is evidence for socialism before Epicurus. I simply offer it as evidence of political thinking way before Epicurus and suggest that it is very likely that many such thinkers could have been called socialists or humanist (I don't see much difference between the two labels). — universeness
Control of the means of production, distribution and exchange is a central tenet of socialism but so is 'politics of, for and by the people,' 'basic human right to food, water, shelter, education, medical care and employment,' — universeness
None of these should be based on ability to pay or who your parents were or your ethnicity or creed. — universeness
From each according to their ability to each according to their need. — universeness
No socialism earlier than Epicurus? No, I think there was socialism going back to the Cro-Magnums. — universeness
We need to unite not divide. — universeness
I want Scottish Independence from England but mainly as a means of politically rejoining Europe.
One human species on one (pale blue dot) planet (at the moment).
Keep writing your stuff about ethics, it may help, but unless you change your political viewpoint, I suggest, with respect, that you stay out of politics. — universeness
This is so disrespectful it's not even to be reckoned with. — Garrett Travers
Millions of bodies on the state-socialist roster in the past century alone and you can dare say something like this with seriousness. It's deplorable. What have these people done to your mind. Have you forgotten Soviet Russia? The Khmer Rouge? The Ba'ath Party? — Garrett Travers
These aren't reasons, they're feelings that are completely fabricated — Garrett Travers
I don't mind socialist. I mind forced socialism. — Garrett Travers
I plan to — Garrett Travers
I'm not completely duped by political sophists. You'll see in time. I guess Russia isn't enough of an example for you right now. But, you'll get it in time. Don't worry, ethics will remain with me, alive, even if I'm the only one willing to break from their desire for power over their fellow humans. — Garrett Travers
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