(Except, of course, for you.) :) — ZzzoneiroCosm
What does Rand mean by selfishness? Is it true that we ought to encourage humankind to be more selfish? Which is more widespread and more problematic in Western civilization: an excess of altruism or an excess of selfishness? — ZzzoneiroCosm
We haven't had a Rand thread for quite a while. Gird up your loins. — Bitter Crank
That which is truly good for the individual, is that which makes them a better, more loving human-being. As such, selfishness and selflessness are one and the same. By being truly selfish, and thus truly caring for the positive developmen of oneself, one will more positively affect all those around them. — Tzeentch
Our use of the term "selfish", greed, callousness, etc., is in fact not a selfishness - it is a self-destructiveness. Such behavior should be looked upon with pity, not disdain. Such disdain comes forth from completely misplaced envy. — Tzeentch
Not sure what Rand would think about this, but I thought I'd throw my perspective in there. — Tzeentch
Rational selfishness, is meant to denote a conscious valuing of one's life, which is finite, and the value of the requirements of one's rational faculty to meet the demands of a finite life to achieve happiness, success, equilibrium, and sustenance. — Garrett Travers
P1. if humans are generated by natural processes with reason (logic, rationality, conceptual faculty) being their means of survival.
P2. if only through this conceptual faculty of reason can humans live a live according to the values he/she develops with said faculty
C. then only moral system of society is one in which each human is free to pursue their own values to live and achieve their own goals — Garrett Travers
P1. if humans are generated by natural processes with reason (logic, rationality, conceptual faculty) being their means of survival. — Garrett Travers
What does Rand mean by selfishness? Is it true that we ought to encourage humankind to be more selfish? Which is more widespread and more problematic in Western civilization: an excess of altruism or an excess of selfishness? — ZzzoneiroCosm
If altruism is a moral no-no, is there any moral obligation to decrease the suffering of suffering people? — ZzzoneiroCosm
I don't even know who is Ayn Rand. I feel pretty ignorant right now... — javi2541997
Wow an anti-communist philosopher writing books about science fiction. I can't get over it — javi2541997
I just checked in Google and there is a Spanish editorial which translated all her works. I would give a try in one of her works :cool: — javi2541997
This first premise is simply untrue. Humans have the capability of using logic and rationality, but often times choose not to do so, or simply make logical and rational mistakes. — Philosophim
Barring that, one can come to the logical conclusion that eliminating their neighbors would result in a boost in wealth or power. — Philosophim
Is there a reason these premises are written like this, Garrett? To me it sounds like it was translated out of Swahili into broken unclear English. Sorry. :smile: — Tom Storm
Humans are rational beings as a consequence of nature? — Tom Storm
How is this different from the normal use of the word?
The use of the word "rational" here seems to do little more than introduce bounds to what we consider "acceptable" selfishness, based on Rand's (or presumably, society's) preferences. — Tzeentch
"Atlas Shrugged." So very, very, very bad, it's goo...No, sorry. It's just bad. — T Clark
Hey, L. Ron Hubbard, who was a pretty good old-style science fiction writer in the 1950s, started Scientology. — T Clark
She is an.... acquired taste. — T Clark
Wow an anti-communist philosopher writing books about science fiction. I can't get over it :lol: — javi2541997
What does Rand mean by selfish:
P1. if humans are generated by natural processes with reason (logic, rationality, conceptual faculty) being their means of survival.
P2. and if it is only through this conceptual faculty of reason that humans are capable of living a life according to the values he/she develops with said faculty
C. then the only moral system of society is one in which each human is free to pursue their own values to live and achieve their own goals — Garrett Travers
Yo, Clark, no well-poisoning. The deal was, we were going to actually do this, and not act like a bunch of PhD's who have never taken a logic course. — Garrett Travers
assuming of course that we’re talking about the possibility of a wholly rational consciousness, which human beings are not. — Possibility
The former (Rand agrees here), constitutes unnecessary ignorance, isolation and exclusion of the potential of self — Possibility
(Rand is less forthcoming here) permits ignorance, isolation and exclusion of the potential of ‘other’ — Possibility
The trick, I think, is to recognise that Rand’s idea of a rational consciousness is limited by the perceived potentiality of individual human survival. — Possibility
So, it still permits a level of selfishness, and therefore ignorance, isolation and exclusion - which Rand seems to argue is necessary. — Possibility
No obligation as such, according to Rand. She does, however, appear to encourage it insofar as it doesn’t conflict with our own pursuit of rational (honest, justifiable, productive, etc) self-interest. There are a number of other ‘objectivist’ virtues that extend this self-interest, steering us towards increasing awareness, interconnection and collaboration with others, but only insofar as any action doesn’t impede our own success, happiness, survival, etc. This means that kindness, generosity and gentleness, for example, are considered conditional virtues. — Possibility
her fictional writing (particularly in relation to characters who intend beyond their rational self-interest) does not. — Possibility
C. then the only moral system of society is one in which each human is free to pursue their own values to live and achieve their own goals — Garrett Travers
1) We have many means of survival. Our mental processes are only one. 2) I don't think it's correct to characterize human mental processes as primarily associated with reason. — T Clark
I think the claim that we develop our values through our conceptual faculty of reason is incorrect. — T Clark
I think one of humanity's primary values results from our social nature. We value other people. We have empathy. — T Clark
Perhaps that was your deal, but you are not the original poster. I think my post was in the spirit of the original post. I also think it's reasonable for me to make my disdain for Rand clear.
That being said, I don't plan to interfere with your plan to have a reasonable discussion of Rand's ideas. See my previous post. — T Clark
What does an Ayn Randian society do with those who, through no fault of their own, are unable to pursue their own values. — RogueAI
Specifically, I'm thinking of people who are severely handicapped, severely schizophrenic, children with severe birth-defects, etc.? — RogueAI
It will be, just like with children, the responsibility of those who created them to take care of them. — Garrett Travers
What happens if "those who created them" are unable to take care of them? Reliance on charities? — RogueAI
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.