Yeah, the rarely seen honorable capitalist, as rare as a white rhino. A millionaire or billionaire that earned their wealth by completely fair means. Stock exchanges, which produce nothing but control the price of all goods and services. Capitalism is base and vile I don't disrespect it, I loathe it.
Do you approve of such characters from William Randolph Hearst to Rupert Murdoch or influential families that were built on monies made from criminality, such as the bootlegging Kennedy's or fraudsters such as Trump? — universeness
Putin is an unelected totalitarian dictator and a theist, Saddam Hussein and Pol Pot were also totalitarian dictators. As is Kim jung un, as was Stalin. Hitler was a fascist obsessed with the theosophic occult. He believed in the supernatural and his soldgers swore allegiance to god and Adolf Hitler and on the list goes. You ascribe the deaths they caused to socialism? Utter nonsense! — universeness
Again, right back at you. Panto chat is boring. You conflate and you come to wrong conclusions. You cant see a difference between totalitarianism and socialism. Using a label does not mean you are such. Is a pedo priest a Christian because they use the label? is a King divine because he demands you accept the label? I have already told you that one must demonstrate socialism if you use the label. If you don't then you are not socialist. None of the vile killer groups you mention are socialist. — universeness
If by forced socialism you mean one-party rule or totalitarianism then we agree. Socialism is by the democratic consent of the majority or else it is not socialism! There can never be forced socialism as a realpolitik. — universeness
I favour global socialism. — universeness
As I said before, blah blah blah, white noise, I am sure like most people, including me, it sounds good when you read such words back to yourself. As Rabbie Burns said:
"O wad some Power the giftie gie us To see oursels as ithers see us!" — universeness
Being rich isn't genocide, genius. Snap out of it — Garrett Travers
Most of them gained power through democratic channels. No, I ascribe it to state-socialism, which is a fact. — Garrett Travers
That's right, they're state-socialist — Garrett Travers
Of course they do, especially when they are totally false!The labels they give themselves matter. — Garrett Travers
You need to be able to interpret such labels as 'Chinese chairman of the communist party' as the true labels 'Rich, powerful, Capitalist with genocidal tendencies.' or 'Socialist/communist leader of Mother Russia' or 'Greatest at everything, Capitalist leader of the FREE WORLD, Donald Trump' as in TruthWhen's the last time you saw the label Capitalist, I mean as a loudly professed ideology with principles and strictures, committing genocide? — Garrett Travers
This isn't an argument you're gonna get away with. If you want to chat with me about this, I want to see some denunciations, and not this half-assed "that wasn't socialism" shit you lefties have been spouting for 50 years. That's old and worn. Yes, it was, it was what socialism looks like when administered by the state, that's why they all look the same. — Garrett Travers
OKAY, there we go! That's more like it. You keep that mentality right there, and there's hope for you. It is essential that you differentiate the two forever, unlike most of your modern brethren, although I have met a few whom I've admired very much. The non-Realpolitik part, is in fucking dispensible. As in, the moment it enters the equation, you have an anti-human philosophy. Just like most philosophies with force as a value — Garrett Travers
My friend..... (sigh)... This sentence and the statement above it are incompatible. Global socialism will require you to violate the consciousness of those who do not wish to participate in good faith. — Garrett Travers
You have to understand that socialism must be voluntary — Garrett Travers
Have you explored the libertarian socialist vision? — Garrett Travers
hehahahe! You're alright, man. — Garrett Travers
No it's not, but genocide is normally perpetrated by brutalised, traumatised, often 'brain dead' soldiers, under orders from scared institutionalised officers in a scared and divided hierarchy which answers to an unelected political elite. Who stole power and are VERY VERY RICH!
But thanks for calling me a genius. I think you are a genius too Garrett, in exactly the same way. — universeness
Yeah, Putin, who was appointed or 'inherited' his title from the moronic Boris Yeltsin. Any democratic channels you think were involved are of your imagination. These people gain power in the same way the leaders of the Mafia gain power or the same way old tribal leaders gained power. Its gangsta rools mate. Not democratic ones. Perhaps you need to 'snap out of it.' — universeness
Size does matter but not if true socialism is applied, which it never has been, including the time of Epicurus as true socialism has very little use for a 'leader of most significance.' — universeness
You need to be able to interpret such labels as 'Chinese chairman of the communist party' as the true labels 'Rich, powerful, Capitalist with genocidal tendencies.' or 'Socialist/communist leader of Mother Russia' or 'Greatest at everything, Capitalist leader of the FREE WORLD, Donald Trump' as in Truth
'Lunatic in voted in by the members of an asylum who has serious genocidal potential.'
You are looking behind the wrong curtains! — universeness
Of course they do, especially when they are totally false! — universeness
Real socialists will always say 'there are two lights, now let's live by truly socialist/humanist politics and create checks and balances to root out the nefarious.' — universeness
aarrrrrgggghhhh! I know!! I have been saying so all my political life.
I cannot impose my politics on anyone but I ask you to accept the complexity of getting the balance correct between being fair on a case by case basis with a dissenting voice whilst maintaining the main tenets of socialism and protecting the well-being of the majority of the people involved. That is the Realpolitik and it's difficult but as true socialist, we will ever strive towards achieving it. A good ethics philosopher could help by resisting the temptation or instinct to call us 'evil.' — universeness
In Truth, I like you to Garrett. Your knowledge and projections of philosophy remain very strong and I do feel that your intentions towards others are benevolent. I don't mind spats, even heated ones, especially if the final result is an improved understanding between both parties. Even if that improvement is tenuous and small, it's still progress for all involved. — universeness
You misunderstand, those channels don't save the country from tyrants. It is specifically the democratic channels that were manipulated to produce this outcome — Garrett Travers
Which is why you and your people have work to do to make it tenable. As it has been known is disasterous — Garrett Travers
It's just, nobody calling themselves socialist have done this, they normally just declared everyone nefarious and killed them. That's kind of the issue — Garrett Travers
Yeah, I mean if the above statements are your disposition, we're on board 100%. That's straight up the key to socialst success, and it's crazy because it's been right there in front of all them, glaring them in the face. I'm sorry your predecessors have tainted the word, it isn't fair to you all in the modern world. But, we'll all make it through if this above is the vision. — Garrett Travers
If I misunderstood then we fundamentally agree but you blame 'manipulated democratic channels,' for being manipulated. Ok I accept and I have stated over and over again that true socialism will require powerful checks and balances so that such manipulations by nefarious individuals/groups cannot happen. But you are way off the mark when you blame socialism and democracy by those who misuse
these labels. Do you blame the doctrine of Christianity or the god fable for the actions of paedo priests?
I don't. Politics are not evil, people do evil things in the name of all sorts of 'labels of convenience.'
Your deadliest enemy can appear wearing the exact same ethics as you espouse. You know what intrigue is about. Stop blaming good people for the past/current evil acts of nefarious individuals because they appear the same as the good people. Watch what they do, not what they promise to do. You know this stuff! — universeness
But we keep trying, we always have since we came out of the wilds, we have been slaughtered by the million. 10,000 years of tears! — universeness
Thanks, Garrett, I really appreciate your willingness to give people like me the benefit of the doubt.
If we cant unite then the bas***** will keep winning! 10,000 years of tears is enough. We must all do better. I have no particular need for the label socialist if it is just too damaged by the lies of others.
We will make new labels if we really need to but there is real power behind the socialism label.
I would like to clean it through demonstration of the good politics it can represent or at least join those who are trying to do so.
Let's try to maintain out unity brother/comrade/fellow earthing.
In union and in fellowship! — universeness
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