I feel as though it was [is?] an umbrella term created to strawman all American and European ideas into being considered "bad" or "wrong". — SleepingAwake
This, like a bad smell, will eventually dissipate. — Bitter Crank
Isn't 'Western culture' a term for global 'liberal' capitalist culture? GLCC — Wayfarer
and suddenly felt that I knew who I was — Wayfarer
I don't think Western is necessarily intended as pejorative. In the minds of some shallow thinkers it is, but not generally. Consider for instance Bertrand Russell's 'History of Western Philosophy' which is still, despite its flaws, regarded as one of the best, most approachable descriptions of the Western philosophical tradition. Russell certainly did not mean Western in a pejorative way. He was very respectful of the achievements of Western culture. 'Western' is just an easy way to distinguish it from the other two large, influential cultures and philosophical streams the Earth has seen, which are Chinese and Indian.I feel as though it was an umbrella term created to strawman all American and European ideas into being considered "bad" or "wrong". — SleepingAwake
Contemporary western culture has been strongly influenced (to a greater or lesser degree) by ancient Near East, Greek, and Roman cultures, and to a lesser extent, pre-Roman native European pagan cultures. — Bitter Crank
I don't think Western is necessarily intended as pejorative. In the minds of some shallow thinkers it is, but not generally. Consider for instance Bertrand Russell's 'History of Western Philosophy' which is still, despite its flaws, regarded as one of the best, most approachable descriptions of the Western philosophical tradition. Russell certainly did not mean Western in a pejorative way. He was very respectful of the achievements of Western culture. 'Western' is just an easy way to distinguish it from the other two large, influential cultures and philosophical streams the Earth has seen, which are Chinese and Indian. — andrewk
I think "Liberal Capitalist Culture" is actually a fair descriptor. Or as the Soviets used to call us: "Decadent." That sort of thinking is actually QUITE present in the progressive circles, and it occasionally scares me. The whole "Property is Theft" and redistribution of wealth thing is coming back in thought, disguising its true nature. — SleepingAwake
The whole "property is theft" thing (Proudhon, French anarchist. 1840) is probably not coming back all that much. — Bitter Crank
Americans aspire to wealth earned the old fashioned way, through yankee ingenuity and ruthless exploitation. That most Americans aren't going to get anywhere close to wealth hasn't discouraged the aspiration. — Bitter Crank
Welcome to the forum, by the way. Your maiden trip out is doing well. — Bitter Crank
Also, thank you. Glad I'm fitting in this well. — SleepingAwake
I must be slightly drunk. That made sense to me, but I'm only this cynical when I drink alone. — SleepingAwake
Mostly, I'm referring to "property" in reference to social capital, rather than actual riches, although there are microcosms wherein modern marxists and BLM activists actually demand property be relinquished from white ownership and given to black people, based on a feeling of entitlement and "300+ years" of oppression (in quotations due to fuzzy number). — SleepingAwake
Being slightly drunk may be one of the reasons you're fitting in so well. There used to be more beer drinkers than there are now -- or the beer drinkers have just stopped admitting it. I would drink more but I fall off my chair too soon. — Bitter Crank
The unfortunate descendants of slaves need to get their collective acts together, and this is a project which the black community has to be in charge of and carry out. They have done it before. Where the cash comes in is paying for actually equally good schools, actually effective job-training programs, tuition free access to higher education where appropriate, job creation in black communities, and so on and so forth. — Bitter Crank
Of course, it isn't only blacks who have suffered. Many working class whites have also gotten fucked over by capitalism. Whites, blacks, asians, and hispanics all need to join together for living wages, strong unions, better housing, fair tax law, high quality health care at affordable cost, excellent public transit, strenuous efforts to reduce CO2, end pollution of the land and water, and so on. — Bitter Crank
I think "Liberal Capitalist Culture" is actually a fair descriptor. Or as the Soviets used to call us: "Decadent." That sort of thinking is actually QUITE present in the progressive circles, and it occasionally scares me. The whole "Property is Theft" and redistribution of wealth thing is coming back in thought, disguising its true nature. — SleepingAwake
Now, to this point. The old fashioned way meaning by any means necessary, which is true, but has happened for ages. We're just willing to ignore that if it makes us feel smarter or better than someone who makes money. When it comes down to it, we're in a weird, parasitic symbiosis with each other. We need food, and instead of growing or hunting it, we have someone else manufacture our desires, which are also their desires, and give them slips of paper or a transfer of magnetic energy to obtain our 1 to 2 hours worth of family time with good food. The arrogant nature of any sort of modern economic system is that it instills a false sense of accomplishment in the head of house's brain when they receive praise for bringing home dinner. The head of house only purchased the meat or vegetables. In truth, the one who labored hardest was the farmers who farmed the meat and veg, and too often, they're the underpaid and talked down to. No matter what label is applied, there's always that arrogance. — SleepingAwake
Not intending to start a flame war (the world outside is already on fire enough as it is), but every time I hear anything about gender, capitalism, money, sex, beauty, masculinity, femininity business and power, the recurring theme I hear from critics of the identified norm is "Western Culture," and I have to ask: Western, as opposed to what? Eastern, Southern, Northern? Where's the point of reference, and whose culture is the "correct" culture, according to those who oppose "Western Culture"? What's the metric for defining what "Western Culture" is, short of the misnomer of conflating it with "Modern" or "First World"? I feel as though it was an umbrella term created to strawman all American and European ideas into being considered "bad" or "wrong".
Let's call it what it is, "democracy". — Metaphysician Undercover
In Plato's Republic you'll find it as the basis for his concept of justice, each person doing one's own thing, which is different from every other person's thing, without interfering with the other. In this way, each person is allowed to make a valuable contribution to society by doing what one is good at. I would prefer to be a farmer working the fields than to be an executive working the company, and I don't think it's correct to portray one as "harder" than the other. One is not necessarily harder work than the other, they are just different. But why should the executive get paid hundreds of times more than the labourer? — Metaphysician Undercover
This is known as the division of labour, and there is nothing shameful about the division of labour. — Metaphysician Undercover
It's difficult for farmers to make a living because the overall cost of food has sunk in recent years, and as a result, they can't afford to hire the hands they'd need to get everything efficiently planted. — SleepingAwake
Democracy is a form of government, not an overall mindset of the populace, which is what we're talking about--culture. — SleepingAwake
Not sure which part of the country you live in — Bitter Crank
When it's being used, this is true, but I'll put the party with whom I would likely side, were they not so corrupt, under the bus for this. The Democratic Party betrays its name heavily. Its members call themselves liberal at times, but one striking oddity bewilders me--the influx of illiberalism in the last seven years. There's a culture of shaming and name calling not seen in ages in this party, which infuriates me greatly. The odd part of it, to me, is the use of the term "progressive," which implies a positive social change for the benefit of the whole, yet most I've met who identify themselves as such make me really uncomfortable--not because I think they might be right, but because they do not seem to understand the meaning of "benefit of the doubt," much less the idea of polite discourse.Whether it's the garden club or the Democratic Party precinct caucus, the township board or the U.S congress, democracy is an essential culture in a democratic country. — Bitter Crank
Kentucky — SleepingAwake
illiberalism — SleepingAwake
injustices — Bitter Crank
From my perspective, the gay rights movement has been over for quite some time. — Bitter Crank
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