But I cannot worship him. It is servile. I cannot pledge allegiance to some faith, as I know the vast majority of my friends will not do this, and so I would be selling them out to save my own neck. — RolandTyme
Followers of religion never seem to present things in this way. — RolandTyme
I appear to be a genuine agnostic - i.e. I am genuinely unsure as to the existence, or not, of God, or supernatural realms and life after death etc. in general. I've never seen an argument on either the atheist side or the theist side which I have found wholly convincing. This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance,
if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
Why do you assume that "Hell" isn't mostly filled with those who do not "lack religious faith or observance"?This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance, if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
Heaven would be nice, but I would be happy with oblivion, which would be, as Luther held (until the resurrection) merely as "sleep". — RolandTyme
I've never seen an argument on either the atheist side or the theist side which I have found wholly convincing. — RolandTyme
Followers of religion never seem to present things in this way. They always seem to be happy to take God's side against humanity, trading on only the "bad people" being in hell. — RolandTyme
Some might say 'there is compelling evidence – nature itself – that there is no (Biblical) god. :chin: (NB: I did for decades but have 'outgrown' mere positive / strong atheism.)A responsible atheist would not make an argument that there is no god - why would they need to? — Tom Storm
A responsible atheist would not make an argument that there is no god - why would they need to? — Tom Storm
Problem is, many of them hate religion and feel contempt for those who believe. That's not atheism, it's... I don't know, what is it? It's not reason. — T Clark
'Who can blame people for angry atheism when the church has done so many evil abusive things and God seems completely absent from much church activity?' — Tom Storm
My attitude is this - God can stuff it if he thinks that I am going to worship him simply on the basis that if I don't, I will go to hell. — RolandTyme
I don't think I have quite made my decision - though I do appreciate your post, and the supportive tone in which it is written. I suppose I am afriad because I cannot logically rule out the possibility that hell exists. And if it exists, I'm going there. I can't morally justify not going there, as I can't morally endorse God's decision that hell should exist. — RolandTyme
Followers of religion never seem to present things in this way. They always seem to be happy to take God's side against humanity, trading on only the "bad people" being in hell. It is an isolating posture - only YOU are going to hell if you remain a bad person. — RolandTyme
I call myself an Agnostic in the literal sense (ignorance of the facts), not in the "weak Atheist" sense (presumptive knowledge of absence). Based on my well-researched personal worldview, I am fairly sure that our world must have had a First Cause --- intelligent enough to create a self-developing universe from scratch, and to evolve creatures that are able to ask philosophical questions about Ontology (being) and Epistemology (knowing). Since we humans are creatures of space-time, we have no certain way of knowing what caused the Big Bang. So, as philosophers & scientists, we can only speculate using our "god-given" or "accidental" Reason.I appear to be a genuine agnostic - i.e. I am genuinely unsure as to the existence, or not, of God, or supernatural realms and life after death etc. in general. I've never seen an argument on either the atheist side or the theist side which I have found wholly convincing. This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance, if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
:up:Christianity is incoherent. — Banno
And you can't rule out the actuality of "the afterlife" either? As far as I know, there isn't any intelligible, factual, evidence to corroborate (e.g. any religious) "belief" that individual, self-aware personality survives irreversible brain-death. If you're "agnostic about God", why is a completely non-evident "belief that there is an afterlife" even a live angsty concern? Are you also afraid of, for example, "alien abductions"? or "being reincarnated as a frog"? or "global elites who are pedophile lizard people"?I suppose I am af[rai]d because I cannot logically rule out the possibility that hell exists. — RolandTyme
Apropos of nothing : an old country music song by a family group of mostly girls -- one about 12 years old -- sang "heaven's just a sin away, wo wo". Obviously, the potential sinner is aware of the consequences of breaking God's thou-shalt-not rules. But she's tempted to commit adultery anyway : "I think I'm givin' in". Presumably, the one contemplating the moral math is a Southern Baptist.This leads me to contemplate whether, given my lack of religious faith or observance, if I will be condemned to hell when I die. — RolandTyme
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