If you can add any set of random four-digit numbers together in your head, you are thinking without sensing. — Mww
Where are you trying to get to? — Possibility
Awareness as information in relation to ‘other’ gives us a basic structure of information we can apply to all levels of relation, from virtual particles to conceptual systems (and possibly beyond), without entertaining the idea that rock are conscious. — Possibility
Awareness is the state of being conscious of something. More specifically, it is the ability to directly know and perceive, to feel, or to be cognizant of events. Another definition describes it as a state wherein a subject is aware of some information when that information is directly available to bring to bear in the direction of a wide range of behavioral actions.[1] The concept is often synonymous to consciousness and is also understood as being consciousness itself.[2]
I don't see any reason to take for granted traditional ideas of thought, mind, sense, or consciousness. — Xtrix
Where are you trying to get to?
— Possibility
A clearer understanding of consciousness and awareness -- basically by acknowledging that there's no good reason to see them as anything but synonymous. — Xtrix
Awareness as information in relation to ‘other’ gives us a basic structure of information we can apply to all levels of relation, from virtual particles to conceptual systems (and possibly beyond), without entertaining the idea that rock are conscious.
— Possibility
Awareness = information in relation to "other" is meaningless to me. If you want to make that clearer, I'm happy to learn. — Xtrix
What if conceptual structure is itself logical? If it is, then the efficiency we have is all we’re ever going to have, and there wouldn’t be any prior knowledge that isn’t already structured logically. — Mww
And if conceptual structure isn’t logical, indicating there is more efficiency to be had, what does the logical structure look like, and how would we know it as such? — Mww
A system predicated on prediction and trial and error cannot be as efficient as one predicated on pure logic, given the excruciatingly simple premise that reason doesn’t like a guessing game, or that which can be reduced to it. — Mww
I have no idea how to connect pain with prediction error.
Prediction: let’s try this. Error: Crap!! I’m now aware that didn’t work!! I felt pain. To feel less pain, try this...try this...try this....where does it end? It ends in no pain, of course. Shall we add sheer luck to prediction and trial and error? — Mww
There’s a reason why we have two words.
— Possibility
What’s the reason? — Xtrix
A system predicated on prediction and trial and error....
— Mww
Reason doesn’t always have a choice in the matter. — Possibility
Pain is a basic biological signal that our predicted distribution of effort and attention (affect) in a particular situation is currently insufficient in some area. — Possibility
Understanding awareness in non-conscious entities is how we improve the accuracy of relationships and interaction with our environment and the universe. — Possibility
A system predicated on prediction and trial and error....
— Mww
Reason doesn’t always have a choice in the matter.
— Possibility
Irrelevant, insofar as ‘predicated on’ as a general methodological necessity is not the same as ‘recognition of’ a particular exception. In the case of QM, reason merely conveys that for which a certainty is impossible, under the strictest of conditions reason itself provided, in accordance with observation. Humans, as such, don’t function in the quantum domain, and I’m a big fan of staying in my own lane, so..... — Mww
Pain is a basic biological signal that our predicted distribution of effort and attention (affect) in a particular situation is currently insufficient in some area.
— Possibility
Yeah....no. Here’s me, walkin’ down a public road, mindin’ my own damn business, hummin’ Jimmy’s solo bridge in Stairway to Heaven.......punk-assed banga jumps out of the bushes, whacks me in the noggin, relieves me of my Rolex. So the pain of embarrassment I felt in the loss of my watch is the signal that I paid too little attention to making it and my wrist inseparable? Or maybe the pain of the lump on my head signals that I made too little effort in formulating an escape from a situation for which there was no antecedent reason, insofar as the situation itself was a complete surprise?
This is what I meant by guessing games. If such-and-such is true in one case, but not in another, there must be something logically underpinning them both.
Pain, or pleasure, is a basic signaling parameter. Period. All they in their various degrees do, is inform of a relative exception to a given rule, and it’s up to reason to figure out the particulars related to it. Anything else is mere anthropology or (gaspsputterchoke) empirical or clinical psychology. Of which the proper speculative metaphysician treats as the proverbial red-headed stepchild, while the “vulgar class”, as Berkeley would say, or the “vulgar understanding” as Hume would call it, think them as some major importance in the governance of the fundamental human condition. — Mww
Understanding awareness in non-conscious entities is how we improve the accuracy of relationships and interaction with our environment and the universe.
— Possibility
Surely you didn’t mean to say I can improve my relationship with a swimming pool if I only understand my diving into it doesn’t cause it any pain. Or, on the other hand, my relationship with the pool improves if I understand it appreciates me diving into it because that is one way the pool was meant to be treated. Your assertion can certainly be interpreted like that. — Mww
There’s a reason why we have two words.
— Possibility
What’s the reason? — Xtrix
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