If you tell me you had a dream, than that's proof enough for me. Of course, you could be lying...

@EugeneW
Could you be arsed to go outside of this thread and have a smoke outside the building? You're loitering.

Tantrum?! So pathetic. :lol: — 180 Proof

Sorry my sweet booze... The one laughing is the pathetic...

You asked for proof! I gave you one: the universe... Gonna smoke one...

Awww, lil D-Ker, nanny / nurse hasn't given you your meds today. :lol:

I take them myself! Doneenunny!

Tantrum?! So pathetic. :lol: — 180 Proof

Look who's talking!

God belief is completely valid. IT'S A BELIEF. It purports no knowledge. Atheism, ditto, but the opposite.

Any arguments against beliefs that they should be supported by evidence is invalid. You can't demand evidence for something that is not knowledge.

This goes for both theists and atheists. It is futile to try to convince someone to discontinue his or her BELIEF. — god must be atheist

I'll need to keep on posting this until one or more of you read this and it sinks in.

You can't report me for repeating myself, because all of you have been repeating yourselves too.

For most practical purposes, i.e. actual:

a·the·ism (noun)
• disregard/dismissal of what theists have failed to prove in the first place
• absence of theism or doubt/disbelief therein, hence the leading 'a'

Terms like antitheism, atheism, igtheism, misotheism, etc, are derived from theism, and theism can mean a few things. Diverse, fantastic, narrated (pseudo-historicized) characters, that supposedly intervene/participate/meddle in human affairs, and adherents go by whatever commands/rules, rituals, fate designations, ... Taking those stories to be literal history converges on fundamentalism. Does anyone seriously believe that a preacher in Middle Eastern antiquity supernaturally fed 5000-9000 people (in 2 rounds) with a handful of food...?

Only cataphatic metaphysics; my speculative concerns moveq on from there to ↪180 Proof. — 180 Proof

I see! I didn't realize we had a choice (in the matter). Only put stock in that which can be affirmed! There's something inherently sick about denial (of reality). Transcendence is the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Are we so pathetically weak? We are dissatisfied (dukkha).

You lost me.

Read my fucking lips:

God belief is completely valid. IT'S A BELIEF. It purports no knowledge. Atheism, ditto, but the opposite.

Any arguments against beliefs that they should be supported by evidence is invalid. You can't demand evidence for something that is not knowledge.

This goes for both theists and atheists. It is futile to try to convince someone to discontinue his or her BELIEF. — god must be atheist

God belief is completely valid. IT'S A BELIEF. It purports no knowledge. Atheism, ditto, but the opposite.

Any arguments against beliefs that they should be supported by evidence is invalid. You can't demand evidence for something that is not knowledge.

This goes for both theists and atheists. It is futile to try to convince someone to discontinue his or her BELIEF. — god must be atheist

Do you have proof of this?

You lost me. — 180 Proof

I got there first! :grin:

Read my fucking lips — god must be atheist

:chin:

Does anyone seriously believe that a preacher in Middle Eastern antiquity supernaturally fed 5000-9000 people (in 2 rounds) with a handful of food...? — jorndoe

No, I don't. Do you seriously belief gods don't exist? Do you really belief laws of nature and the basic stuff in it are clever enough to create themself?

Do you have proof of this? — EugeneW

Do you speak and comprehend English? FAITH is a BELIEF. It requires no proof. What's so fucking hard to understand about that?

God belief is completely valid. IT'S A BELIEF. It purports no knowledge. Atheism, ditto, but the opposite.

Any arguments against beliefs that they should be supported by evidence is invalid. You can't demand evidence for something that is not knowledge.

This goes for both theists and atheists. It is futile to try to convince someone to discontinue his or her BELIEF. — god must be atheist

I was writing that finally some wise words in a quiet piece of water in a boiling ocean had arrived. Then you posted again...

laws of nature and the basic stuff in it are clever enough to create themself? — EugeneW

who said they needed to create themselves? This is not a valid assumption. They could have existed forever. No need for creation.

However, if you believe that creation happened, that's your prerogative, and nobody has the power of argument to deter you from that. On the other hand, if you said that creation is a necessity, a necessary event, that is not belief; that is a claim, and it can be argued against.

Atheists have no proof. It's a fairytale, not a belief. Only theists have proof.

Only theists have proof. — EugeneW

Such as? :pray:

Atheists have no proof. It's a fairytale, not a belief. Only theists have proof. — EugeneW

You're right that atheists have no proof. But so don't theists.

who said they needed to create themselves? This is not a valid assumption. They could have existed forever. No need for creation. — god must be atheist

In fact they are eternal. But too dumb to come into existence.

In fact they are eternal. But too dumb to come into existence. — EugeneW

We agree on that.

The fact that the universe, in its eternal infinity, exists.

The only reason I mention the word "theist" is out of respect for the thread (which is about atheism). Plenty of non-religious practicing people still believe in God. Nice try though. — chiknsld

A theist is simply a believer in god/s. It has nothing to do with practicing a religion. There was no 'nice try'.

If it is not immediately evident to you that there is something going on, whilst living and breathing in a gigantic universe...then it's a safe assumption that you will probably never believe in God. — chiknsld

If it is not immediately evident to you that there is nothing going on, whilst living and breathing in a gigantic universe...then it's a safe assumption that you will probably always use god/s as an emotional crutch. You see, you are not presenting an argument, you are just using words to construct a rudimentary appeal to mystery and emotion. I can do it in reverse and it's no better.

You've got to be kidding me. Haughtily asking for proof of God in the guise of sincere and genuine civic duty? Vladimir Putin? Gays in Saudi Arabia? You're making a mockery of atheism.

Religion does not have a monopoly on psychopathy, — chiknsld

I did not say religion has a monopoly on psychopathy. Although in some theocracies it does. I see you prefer deflection to argument.

Wouldn't it be so easy for you if everything was all natural? I mean, then you wouldn't even have to ask a theist why they believe in God right? Or for proof? But wait (here comes the justification)... — chiknsld

Do you have evidence of anything that is not natural? I thought not...

Justification? One of many reasons for anti-theism perhaps.

Asking people why they believe in god/s? I know many of those reasons, having a priest as a close friend, having worked in palliative care services and working with people to prevent suicide has taught me enough about believer's reasons.

But still you avoid discussing yours and resort to deflections Ok I get it, it's hard if you have no good reasons.

And you know what? I don't care that people are theists (as long as they don't want to establish a theocracy) I'm just on a forum and when theists use words that sound like they know stuff when it's way more likely they don't, I sometimes enter the discussion. Arguing about god/s is no more useful than arguing about what the best Adam Sandler movies is.

Take care, it was fun. Maybe we can engage about some other stuff later.

I was writing that finally some wise words in a quiet piece of water in a boiling ocean had arrived. Then you posted again — EugeneW

sorry to have preemted you. I was getting frustrated. Please understand.

Explain how it is that the universe is "proof" there is a god.

as long as they don't want to establish a theocracy — Tom Storm

I don't care about atheists. As long as they don't wanna establish an atheocracy. But they did, goddamnit!

[ :lol: