How does it influence which strategy we might advocate? — Isaac
To all holy warriors including Putin, the advice might be something like: If you want to be able to get out of a war at some point through a peace deal, then maybe don't essentialize it as being between Good and Evil. Cause that makes it hard to sign a peace deal, eventually. — Olivier5
So you agree with me that all the framing of this war as 'evil Putin vs. noble Ukrainians' is unhelpful. — Isaac
So you agree with me that all the framing of this war as 'evil Putin vs. noble Ukrainians' is unhelpful. — Isaac
The implication is NOT that something or another is 'unhelpful' per se. It is that essentializing a conflict as good vs evil has a cost: it makes it harder to make peace. This cost may or may not be worth paying depending on the circumstances. It was certainly a good thing to see the fight against Nazism as a fight against evil, for instance. There was no peace to be made with Hitler. — Olivier5
With online posts in Hebrew and appeals to Jews to "cry out" in response to Russia's invasion, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has invoked his faith to rally support for his embattled country. — https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/03/zelensky-invokes-judaism-rally-support-ukrainian-cause
they do not say that they are on a crusade against evil. They say that they are defending their land against a ultra-brutal and totally immoral invasion. — Olivier5
the problem is that Putin has framed the 'evil neo-nazi Ukrainians vs. holy-war Putin&Russians' is in the first place and that is unhelpful for peace making. — neomac
Why is that more unhelpful for peacemaking than the opposite framing of 'totally innocent Ukrainians bravely fighting a ruthless and hell-bent tyrant, deaf to all pleas'? — Isaac
wanting a war to continue — Isaac
I was talking about my expectations about what the Ukrainians want not about what I want. — neomac
How is that any different. "ultra-brutal and totally immoral" just sounds like a synonym for 'evil'. — Isaac
So why did you involve my post? If you want to have a different conversion, don't do so in response to my posts, it's really confusing. — Isaac
You made a claim that I as others find questionable and I addressed it as such. — neomac
Peace requires a deal of some sort, and a deal of some sort requires both sides to give, which means both sides accepting some wrong. — Isaac
That is simply not true. In such a deal the parties just have to agree on their future relationship. They don't need to agree on who was right or wrong in the past. — Olivier5
The point was that it becomes difficult to fo if you see the fight as part of some cosmic battle between Good and Evil. Note the capital letters. The fight is to redress a particular evil, the invasion, not an absolute Evil. Zelensky is not going to fight all the way to Moscow. — Olivier5
None of Putin's rhetoric implies he's going to wipe out the 'evil' Ukraine either. He talks a lot about how they are his Russian brothers. The 'evil' he's talking about is Neo-Nazisism, imperialism, genocide etc. All clear evils, not Evil capitalised. — Isaac
Each side needs to have a 'wrong' they can offer to right, otherwise they'll be no deal. — Isaac
Let's just think how according to you, what "the only correct strategic move" has produced so far:Yes. Nice of you to get all judgmental over that assessment. — Benkei
Well, Isaac, because if you haven't noticed, there are on going peace talks.Why point that out? — Isaac
How genuine Putin is at those peace talks, can be observed from what he talks to the Russian public. — ssu
Let's just think how according to you, what "the only correct strategic move" has produced so far: — ssu
I could say that, yes. — Olivier5
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